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China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

reuters.com

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Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#281

Post by int_19h »

yters wrote: post #122
apexalpha wrote: post #55

The whole Tibet situation is such a horrible one. From our Western perspective it feels so wrong that they're essentially trying to extinguish an entire culture and 'fitting' it into China. But we also can't say anything because China makes all our stuff. Plus, China isn't going to be impressed when the old Imperial continent with 140 ex-colonies and the current imperial top-dog with 800 foreign military bases are go…

we call out all our own flaws from the past and now reject colonialism additionally, our country was founded by people escaping religious persecution why are not right to call out others currently making our mistakes from the past?

If US rejects colonialism, why doesn't Puerto Rico have voting representation in the federal government?

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#282

Post by golergka »

apexalpha wrote: post #55

The whole Tibet situation is such a horrible one. From our Western perspective it feels so wrong that they're essentially trying to extinguish an entire culture and 'fitting' it into China. But we also can't say anything because China makes all our stuff. Plus, China isn't going to be impressed when the old Imperial continent with 140 ex-colonies and the current imperial top-dog with 800 foreign military bases are go…

> current imperial top-dog with 800 foreign military bases

You make it sound as if they were a part of aggressive expansion and colonisation, which is a bit misleading. Vast majority of US military bases are in NATO countries that were very enthusiastic about outsourcing protection from the soviet threat.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#283

Post by ceejayoz »

kube-system wrote: post #200
NegativeLatency wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.wordnik.com/words/colonized > adjective politically ruled by citizens of another country. Seems to fit this definition

16 years ago, one of those countries met that definition for a period of 14 months.

If the Ba'ath Party and Taliban had taken back control after those 14 months in each respective country, are you under the impression the US would've gone "welp, we tried!" and left?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De-Ba%27athification

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#284

Post by maxbond »

rayiner wrote: post #235
apexalpha wrote: post #55

The whole Tibet situation is such a horrible one. From our Western perspective it feels so wrong that they're essentially trying to extinguish an entire culture and 'fitting' it into China. But we also can't say anything because China makes all our stuff. Plus, China isn't going to be impressed when the old Imperial continent with 140 ex-colonies and the current imperial top-dog with 800 foreign military bases are go…

It feels wrong but it’s also how pretty much every culture got to be the way it is. Why do I have an Arabic last name even though I was born 3,000 miles away from the Middle East? Because 800 years ago an Islamic empire conquered India and Bangladesh. Why do Bangladeshis wear powdered wigs in court? Because the British conquered them 500 years after that. The British themselves are the product of numerous waves of co…

Past wrongs do not justify present wrongs.

It is not wrong for individuals to choose to assimilate. The deliberate and systematic destruction of other cultures - which China is engaged in on multiple fronts - is wrong.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#285

Post by defen »

madenine wrote: post #243
smithza wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But we also can't say anything because China makes all our stuff. Thinking of Lebron James who hypocritically spoke up about BLM and not about human rights abuses in China[1]. We cannot place our hopes in capitalism to deal with these human-rights atrocities, even though there is much the NBA could do to use their financial power to influence the region and demand change. MLK would use boycotts to force racist busi…

> Thinking of Lebron James who hypocritically spoke up about BLM and not about human rights abuses in China[1]. I don't understand this take. Why does LeBron James have to address human rights in China before he, a Black American, can address human rights abuses against Black Americans in America?

> Why does LeBron James have to address human rights in China before he, a Black American, can address human rights abuses against Black Americans in America?

Because as bad as the human rights abuses against Black Americans in America are, they pale in comparison to what China is doing. But that's not the only issue. The bigger issue is that LeBron James chooses to make hundreds of millions of dollars by staying silent on the China issue. I think he could have a tremendous impact by rejecting that money and denouncing China...what are the Lakers going to do, fire him? He can do both things. With BLM he's just one of many, many, MANY celebrities saying the same thing. What people with his level of reach are saying anything about China?

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#286

Post by actuator »

bobbyz wrote: post #207
actuator wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So like Hawaii? Are people in Hawaii still getting held at gunpoint to assimilate to whatever American culture is? If yes, we should definitely complain about it now. > Yes. Plus they have old claims to the area (as valid as a claim can be). Yes, we all know about those claims like the comical nine dash line. Tibet has always been a historical buffer state between the Chinese and Indian civilizations, culturally in…

If you think the nine dash line is comical, you're going to LOVE the British drawn India-Pakistani border with the most important Sikh holy site in muslim majority Pakistan! After you have a chuckle at that, you can ask the native americans how much fun they had with map drawing lunatics during the colonization of the Americas.

> the British drawn India-Pakistani border with the most important Sikh holy site in muslim majority Pakistan

As far as I understand for that at least, the divisions/districts were divided based on religion, because that's what the demand of the leaders who wanted Pakistan was. So Pakistan got every Muslim majority district on the west of the current Indian state. Is it possible the Sikh holy site you are talking about was a Muslim majority division/district?

But your point does underscore my point, look at all the chaos that line drawing left in the world. That's all the more reason to call out the comical claims that are being enforced now.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#287

Post by golergka »

api wrote: post #180
apexalpha wrote: post #55

The whole Tibet situation is such a horrible one. From our Western perspective it feels so wrong that they're essentially trying to extinguish an entire culture and 'fitting' it into China. But we also can't say anything because China makes all our stuff. Plus, China isn't going to be impressed when the old Imperial continent with 140 ex-colonies and the current imperial top-dog with 800 foreign military bases are go…

It's similar to our reluctance to criticize Saudi Arabia even when there are links between their upper crust and the largest terror attack ever on American soil. Saudi Arabia is still one of the largest oil spigots with the easiest ability to turn that spigot on and off and therefore set global oil prices, so we don't dare offend them.

Two points.

First, Ben Laden had ben persecuted by Saudi Arabia and had to flee the country. Long before the 9/11 attacks. Saudi Arabia was trying to get him.

Second, supporting current regime in Saudi Arabia sounds barbaric and morally reprehensible — as long as you don't find out who's their internal opposition is. Surprise: it's not freedom-loving democratic westernised students. It's even more radical and aggressive religious zealots. If US stops supporting House of Saud, it will be a new Iran or even ISIS there, but with much better economy and a pretty capable military.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#288

Post by readarticle »

ReptileMan wrote: post #246
throwaway2048 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think the world would be a safer and more peaceful place if nobody stopped nazi germany?

Yes. It wouldn't have been nicer probably since being populated only by ayrians would get boring, but once you are finished with genocide it would be peaceful and strong authoritarian states usually are safe.

Keyword: world

Could be safe internally, but that is utterly irrelevant to its neighbors, and the geopolitical order of a world in which the nazis weren’t crushed, the winning empires weren’t dismantled, and the US isn’t the guarantor of global trade and European security in order to combat the Soviets.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#289

Post by golergka »

bobbyz wrote: post #255
jjcon wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

‘Illegals’ are not in forced labor camps and that sort of equivalence is just gross. Immigrants to Europe and the US need a place to stay while their cases are processed, with the increases in immigration (especially in Europe) it is difficult to keep up with. Does the west need to do better? Absolutely but stating that these immigrant camps are like forced labor camps is deliberately misleading and just flat out wro…

What is the difference in real terms between the border camps and forced labour camps? The labour? Taking bets that these camps introduce forced labour like the Nazi camps did. Odds stop at the decade. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/07/border-fac...

The difference is the reason to be in the camps. Breaking country's laws is generally viewed as legitimate reason to send someone to prison or camp, while being of a certain ethnicity is not.

Of course, there's an issue of laws that are by themselves are morally reprehensible, like the Nuremberg laws in Nazi Germany. However, immigration laws are clearly moral and expected to exist in some form or another in any modern country.

I have to say, this distinction is so obvious I'm very surprised that somebody asks this kind of question at all.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#290

Post by Fauntleroy »

maxbond wrote: post #284
rayiner wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It feels wrong but it’s also how pretty much every culture got to be the way it is. Why do I have an Arabic last name even though I was born 3,000 miles away from the Middle East? Because 800 years ago an Islamic empire conquered India and Bangladesh. Why do Bangladeshis wear powdered wigs in court? Because the British conquered them 500 years after that. The British themselves are the product of numerous waves of co…

Past wrongs do not justify present wrongs. It is not wrong for individuals to choose to assimilate. The deliberate and systematic destruction of other cultures - which China is engaged in on multiple fronts - is wrong.

I think the point here is, what are you going to do about it? This is unfortunately how humanity operates. It disgusts me but history shows that it is nigh inevitable.
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