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China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

reuters.com

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Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#141

Post by apatters »

croes wrote: post #98
logicallee wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to have any appetite for a land war to say you gotta free your concentration camps within 18 months or we have to come invade. It's a million people.

The US had no problem with dead 500,000 Iraqi Children, why should they care for a million uighurs? What if China says they will release them if we take them in? Then suddenly there wouldn't be any uighurs but only Muslims and we "know" they are all "terrorists".

This statement smelled fishy to me as there are only 40M or so people in Iraq to begin with, so I Googled around a bit.

Despite politicians and talking heads claiming for years that either Desert Storm, UN sanctions, or both caused half a million child deaths, evidently most studies found that the child mortality rate in Iraq was unchanged throughout the 1990s.

https://psmag.com/news/the-iraq-sanctions-myth-56433

https://cdn.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/Iraqi-death-toll-doe...

While this apparently fake statistic has mostly been used to criticize the US and UN, it seems Tony Blair used it to justify the 2003 invasion of Iraq, claiming the dead kids were Saddam's fault.

I guess this is why I don't read the papers much anymore.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#142

Post by coldtea »

yters wrote: post #126
coldtea wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From our Western perspective it feels so wrong that they're essentially trying to extinguish an entire culture and 'fitting' it into China. Yeah, kinda like Hawaii. (Not to mention Native Americans' lands, civilization, and culture). Or, well, Mexico. Sure, it's, "whataboutism". Which is an improvement on the our-shit-doesn't-smell-besides-that-was-back-a-while-ago-so-we-get-to-keep-it-now "Western perspective". Or…

so if a reformed mob boss sees other mobsters extorting people, he cannot step in and stop them because he did the same thing in the past? every culture has done horrible things in the past. does that mean no one should try to prevent modern crimes against humanity? i really don't understand this kind of ethical reasoning, just sounds like pious excuses to sit on our hands

>so if a reformed mob boss sees other mobsters extorting people, he cannot step in and stop them because he did the same thing in the past?

Reformed? LOL.

>i really don't understand this kind of ethical reasoning, just sounds like pious excuses to sit on our hands

It's the ethical imperative of:

- not being a hypocrite,

- being the change you want to see in the world, and putting your house in order first

- the old-mob-boss not getting to keep his illegal riches (not to mention his old ways) and claim to be reformed,

- and not using the plights of "poor X" as an excuse to attack their opressor, when you don't really care about poor X, you have opressed and are still opressing others all over the world, and you have no problems with other opressors of third parties if they are allies...

Without self-reflection and equal corrective moves on the finger-pointing side, the finger-pointing at China is merely used as a political weapon to justify aggression and pressure against them in the ongoing trade/influence war.

As for the finger pointers, those higher-up cultivate this for this exact purpose (as popular support for their hawkish plans), and the masses just point at the "enemy of the day" as they are conditioned...

As for the "pious excuses to sit on our hands" that's what happens anyway, nobody is actually doing anything. The one's that do are those who control armies and policy - and those have their own agendas, could not give less fucks for justice for Tibet.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#143

Post by shrewduser »

coldtea wrote: post #120
apexalpha wrote: post #55

The whole Tibet situation is such a horrible one. From our Western perspective it feels so wrong that they're essentially trying to extinguish an entire culture and 'fitting' it into China. But we also can't say anything because China makes all our stuff. Plus, China isn't going to be impressed when the old Imperial continent with 140 ex-colonies and the current imperial top-dog with 800 foreign military bases are go…

> From our Western perspective it feels so wrong that they're essentially trying to extinguish an entire culture and 'fitting' it into China. Yeah, kinda like Hawaii. (Not to mention Native Americans' lands, civilization, and culture). Or, well, Mexico. Sure, it's, "whataboutism". Which is an improvement on the our-shit-doesn't-smell-besides-that-was-back-a-while-ago-so-we-get-to-keep-it-now "Western perspective". Or…

Dude have you been to hawaii? their culture is very much in tact and proud. Not only that but locals have special rights and privileges over mainlanders not the reverse.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#144

Post by jjcon »

coldtea wrote: post #120
apexalpha wrote: post #55

The whole Tibet situation is such a horrible one. From our Western perspective it feels so wrong that they're essentially trying to extinguish an entire culture and 'fitting' it into China. But we also can't say anything because China makes all our stuff. Plus, China isn't going to be impressed when the old Imperial continent with 140 ex-colonies and the current imperial top-dog with 800 foreign military bases are go…

> From our Western perspective it feels so wrong that they're essentially trying to extinguish an entire culture and 'fitting' it into China. Yeah, kinda like Hawaii. (Not to mention Native Americans' lands, civilization, and culture). Or, well, Mexico. Sure, it's, "whataboutism". Which is an improvement on the our-shit-doesn't-smell-besides-that-was-back-a-while-ago-so-we-get-to-keep-it-now "Western perspective". Or…

Because Britain and Spain colonized Hawaii in the 1500s nobody can criticize China for using forced labor in the 2020s? That takes some serious mental gymnastics.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#145

Post by coldtea »

jariel wrote: post #127
coldtea wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From our Western perspective it feels so wrong that they're essentially trying to extinguish an entire culture and 'fitting' it into China. Yeah, kinda like Hawaii. (Not to mention Native Americans' lands, civilization, and culture). Or, well, Mexico. Sure, it's, "whataboutism". Which is an improvement on the our-shit-doesn't-smell-besides-that-was-back-a-while-ago-so-we-get-to-keep-it-now "Western perspective". Or…

Wait, are Hawaiians put into forced labour camps? Can they own property? Businesses? Vote? Can the run for Congress, Senate, President? Are they taught that they cannot have their heritage? "whataboutism'.

Yes, they are "free", in their old land, under the laws and federal government of the US...

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#146

Post by netsharc »

trasz wrote: post #85
oxymoran wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea war is a terrible idea. Even if we “won” it would come at great cost. The best strategy is to contain them and wait for the inevitable communist collapse. Also, breaking the great firewall would do wonders in encouraging Chinese citizens to stand up for themselves. Hopefully Elon doesn’t kowtow to the CCP with Starlink.

You are aware that most people know perfectly well how to use VPNs?

Well, the Great Firewall recognizes VPN packets and can decide to drop them, so you might not even be able to complete a login with the VPN server...

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#147

Post by throwaway2048 »

levosmetalo wrote: post #139
mensetmanusman wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why were our grandparents willing to sacrifice their life for the Europeans?

I wish grandchildren of your grandparents today would be less willing to sacrifice their lives for anyone in the world by playing the worlds' government, lawmaker and policemen. The world would be much safer and peaceful place.

Do you think the world would be a safer and more peaceful place if nobody stopped nazi germany?

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#148

Post by [deleted] »

bobbyz wrote: post #86
liminal wrote: post #10

Han supremacy has all the markings of other supremacist movements and will unfortunately need to be confronted. Not sure when the world will work up the courage to do so, though.

Han supremacy? Laughably absurd. Just because some other cultures have a history of thinking they're better than everyone else doesn't mean that every culture does. Accounts of what China and the West thought of each other survive from the era of Marco Polo. The Chinese thought of Western Civilization with equality and respect. The West's opinion on the Chinese? Barbarians. Every country has its bigots, but suggestio…

[deleted]

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#149

Post by fspeech »

apexalpha wrote: post #55

The whole Tibet situation is such a horrible one. From our Western perspective it feels so wrong that they're essentially trying to extinguish an entire culture and 'fitting' it into China. But we also can't say anything because China makes all our stuff. Plus, China isn't going to be impressed when the old Imperial continent with 140 ex-colonies and the current imperial top-dog with 800 foreign military bases are go…

This vlogger had extensive travel in Tibet. Just one person's glimpse of what Han-Tibetan interaction looks like: https://m.youtube.com/c/环华十年/videos?disable_polymer=true&itc... The most recent episodes about Tibet were about a year ago so one has to really scroll down to get to it.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#150

Post by tasuki »

FooBarBizBazz wrote: post #63
bouncycastle wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is a "reeducation program"? What are they being "re-educated about"?

That their old culture, and its old power structures, are bad, and that the new culture, and the new power structures (with Han at the top) are good. New is good. Old is a bad look.

Tbh the power structures in Tibet [0] weren't that great.

[0]: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Tibet_(1912%E2%80%931951)#/Socie...

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