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Old TV caused village broadband outages for 18 months

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Re: Old TV caused village broadband outages for 18 months

#181
post #4

Someone needs to explain why it took 18 months to figure this out considering how simple it was to detect. You have a problem that's repeatable right on schedule, that presumably shows up in the logs and affects multiple customers. It should be a no-brainer to send someone with test equipment out there to measure things in the field while the problem was happening.

In Ireland, not the UK, but from what I hear the ISP market is pretty similar.

1. You have an issue with your broadband in a rural area. You call up your ISP. You get some handwavy answer about contention and they ask you to restart your router and call them back if it happens again.

2. The next time they agree to have an engineer take a look. You hear nothing back. You contact them again, they say their engineer looked at the exchange and found no issues.

3. The next time you ring them and they agree to send an engineer to your house. The engineer (contracted out) arrives at 2pm, they check your modem, rant a bit off the record about how they don't fund shit, then determines that everything's working fine at 2pm, and it's the ISP's problem that their network collapses at 6pm because they oversold the rate of your village.

4. You contact the ISP. They read the engineer's report, saw it was working fine at 2pm, and decided they didn't need to take action. They suggest using the internet at another time of day, such as when you and most of your neighbours are away from the house and at work.

5. If enough people in the area decide they complain they might finally deign to do something about their service in a few months. More likely is some other ISP comes around and signs up all the customers so pissed off with the last one, until most of the village is now on this ISP and the same problems reocur.

6. After like 4 or so years you've looped through all the ISPs, maybe there's a new generation of tech which promises higher speeds but they can't be bothered funding anything locally so your actual speed and reliability is unchanged.

Re: Old TV caused village broadband outages for 18 months

#182

I recently had my own host of cable internet issues. So about 3 months ago the RJ45 cable in my cable modem melted . I thought it was a freak accident. I checked all of my networking equipment, checked my outlets, etc. No problems. So I installed a new cable and then everything was fine. Cue 2 weeks ago. Connectivity became intermittent and then finally I had no internet for almost a week. Comcast wouldn't be able to…

In the UK we call this a PEN conductor fault. It's called a PEN conductor when it's used as a combined Protective Earth & Neutral, as in a TN-C-S earthing arrangement. The property earthing is bonded to the incoming neutral cable before the consumer unit ("fuse board" / breaker panel). This relies on the fact that the neutral side of the supply transformer is itself earthed (this is why it's called neutral; its poten…

In a properly executed TN-C-S distribution, the TN-C and TN-S sections are separated with a 4 way single junction point where the PEN conductor coming from the station is connected to the local grounding rod and after this the separated PE and Neutral conductors are drawn into the property. Absolutely no circuit breaker is allowed on the PEN conductor upwards of this separation point.

This arrangement remains safe regardless of any single fault in any of the 4 wires. If the PEN conductor breaks but the local earthing still has decently low resistance, the internal PE protection that connects to the case of electronic appliances is still connected to the ground. If strong currents are drawn the voltage of the PE in relation to the real ground will increase, but the mains voltage will also fluctuate with the difference; so you might get a 20-30V drop in the mains voltage and the same voltage appears on the PE, not usually dangerous and you can see something is wrong with the power. Differential and overload protections still work since they have a safe return via the grounding rod.

If, on the other hand, the local grounding malfunctions, the PE is still secured to the PEN, which should be grounded at the nearest pole or local transformer. This is a harder defect to detect and periodic checks are recommended on the local ground, but at least you have single fault protection, and two things need to happen before a dangerous condition can occur (both local grounding and the PEN conductor must have a fault).

An adjacent benefit of having good local grounding in this configuration is cleaner and more stable voltage, since all groundings of all houses in an area are connected in parallel to the same PEN line, providing a path to the ground that might have a lower impedance than the PEN line feeding it.

Re: Old TV caused village broadband outages for 18 months

#183

I want to know why peoples are paying high for OLD TV's these days. Whats in there?

Most old video game consoles render games internally in 240p and then blank every other scan line. On CRTs, this effect works since the missing lines blend together with the filled in lines but modern TVs will often try to use video processing to 'fill in' these missing lines and even when they don't the effect doesn't look nice on a modern LCD or OLED.

Also, CRTs render each scan line in real time whereas modern TVs have to receive all 480 lines before they can render a frame. This introduces a non-trivial amount of latency into the video feed which can make certain old games unpleasant to play.

Re: Old TV caused village broadband outages for 18 months

#184

I love these kind of stories. At Astron, the institute that builds and operates radio telescopes in the Netherlands, there's a story that they once gave a new TV to someone who lived a couple of villages from one of the telescopes, because the old set was causing too much radio interference. They could figure out the exact location of the old TV based on the data from the radio telescope

Then there’s a group of observant Jews that’ll sometimes drop by and kindly come by and fix your fence for free if it’s a part of their eruv, possibly before you know it’s broken

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/the-invisible-and-often...

Re: Old TV caused village broadband outages for 18 months

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Comcast wouldn't be able to send anyone out for a month Is there a good explanation for how this can be the case in a developed country?

Is there a good explanation for how this can be the case in a developed country? Since his story is worded as if it happened recently, it could be COVID-related. Back in April I tried to get my cable company to install its home security system where I live. I was told no, because the company wasn't sending techs into anyone's homes until the virus let up. I tried again in August, and was told it would be a very long…

> it could be COVID-related

This was certainly an issue with BT-OR in the UK for a short while when lock-down first properly started and there was a combination of OR people not being able to work and home users discovering issues (or reporting those that until now had been to minor to care about) as they tried to work from home. That caused quite a back-log of work in some areas.

Re: Old TV caused village broadband outages for 18 months

#186

I recently had my own host of cable internet issues. So about 3 months ago the RJ45 cable in my cable modem melted . I thought it was a freak accident. I checked all of my networking equipment, checked my outlets, etc. No problems. So I installed a new cable and then everything was fine. Cue 2 weeks ago. Connectivity became intermittent and then finally I had no internet for almost a week. Comcast wouldn't be able to…

Being somewhat savvy here probably saved the Comcast tech from severe injury I could imagine them poking around and getting a shocking result.

Re: Old TV caused village broadband outages for 18 months

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just FYI, I really enjoyed your story but I almost closed the tab and didn't read it due to "Read on to find out" in the first paragraph. It sets off all the clickbait alarms in my head, which make me expect to find a bunch of low-quality content. The rj45 cable melting is just as good of a hook (and is actually why I continued reading). I'd suggest sticking the first sentence onto the front of the second paragraph a…

Thanks for that feedback. I'm having to do a lot more writing for my job now so being able to improve my writing with honest feedback is super important. I agree, I even cringed a little bit when I wrote it. But I didn't want to fully give everything away so it was just a bad edit :) Your suggestion would work a lot better.

You had me hook, line and sinker at "cable in my cable modem melted". Great story and great writing, thanks!

Re: Old TV caused village broadband outages for 18 months

#188
18 months? Wouldn't you use the "monitoring device" earlier to diagnose such issues?

Interference can happen from many other devices and it is not uncommon for the providers and state to find these devices and sometimes fine the individual for using/installing them. People install all kinds of stuff without knowing it can cause problems. Cell repeaters and devices that are not in spec or not even FCC approved etc.

Re: Old TV caused village broadband outages for 18 months

#189
One of my favourite outages was my TV cable - I was sat in a government NOC and called them during lunch. Was lucky I had a phone that had a loudspeaker (was late 90's) and was able to share the excuse for poor intermittent reception - "Sir, your signal is poor as you live on a hill and the it has problems going up hill thru the cable".

Another one around same time same government building and was running Videoconferencing over 2Mbps circuits. Would get intermittent glitches - turned out the Q bearer for the line comming in was old and whilst other networking was fine running over that and the odd few bits messed up on networking could be retransmitted alas TCP/IP, for video, such hits stood out. Replaced that and worked lovely.

But weather related issue for networking would always be the go to, often heavy rain would mess up some microwave link or CAB unit and cause issues.

Another favourite was TZ spikes and had issue which saw call congestion around 3pm every day in the UK on these batch of modems - turned out that was when America woke up and would see a surge in calls, saturating/spiking the capacity for the telco provider and artificially capping our incoming call lines before we hit our capacity.

Then the seasonal ones like birds nesting or tree's growing or a tree ok but when the wind was north west over a certain speed it would blip between the microwave link - microwave links can be so much fun for the gotcha issues that can happen.

Re: Old TV caused village broadband outages for 18 months

#190
post #33

I naively thought this was going to be somewhere like rural India, not the UK (albeit relatively rural Wales). I'm forever calling out engineers because the line crackles to the point it's difficult to take a call and my internet speed drops from ~65Mbps to ~10. Maybe I should start looking for old TVs. Somehow, being on a road where the houses were only built 5 years ago we have copper lines and on my side of the st…

> houses on both sides of mine are able to sign up for g.fast but I'm not

That sounds odd and may be an error in OR's data. I would try to escalate it up to the point where it is investigated...

It is far from unheard of for one side of a street to have different options, or even one part of one side of the street, because for some reason of geography or cab capacity when the houses were first connected they are connected to different cabinets and not all of them have been upgraded to enable g.fast. But such things shouldn't be localised to one home unless you are in a mansion with massive grounds (in which case stop messing with the consumer arm of BT-OR, you can afford to have your own private leased line installed via the business arm!).

Be careful switching to g.fast if upstream throughput is important to you. I know people who had the top-end upstream offered by FTTC (~17Mbit/s) but got less after switching to g.fast (though better downstream, and for them like most that was the important factor so they were happy).

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