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Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

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Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#261

Post by Yetanfou »

disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #258
Yetanfou wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I realise this but the solution is not to wave the don't shoot, I'm with you flag. The real solution is to get the discussion to revolve around the message instead of the messenger . This is a culture change and as such it takes time and you'll have to suffer the (no so) occasional downvote-into-oblivion experience but so be it. Here comes some ethically questionable but effective advice to stay alive in the HN jungl…

I mean, the alternative is to only post on technical topics, where there's a lot less need for the "right" opinions (unless you hate Rust, I guess ;) ).

If only that were true, but political issues have crept into many technical topics in such a way that it is hard to avoid them altogether. Maybe a 'political' flag on politicised (sub)threads can help, together with an option to hide such threads. On some days it will be very quiet here for those who have chosen to hide politics but that only makes them more productive.

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#262

Post by RhysU »

Blackthorn wrote: post #43

What's really crazy is that movie theaters in this state aren't allowed to open, but still have to pay their property taxes (which will likely bankrupt them). I have no love for some of them, but bullshit is bullshit.

They are still using the property. If one has an empty barn one pays property tax on it.

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#263

Post by RhysU »

aogaili wrote: post #208

Things in the US seems absurd from an outsider perspective due to ideological beliefs. On the same month, you can read two articles coming from the US: 1) Jeff Bezos Becomes The First Person Ever Worth $200 Billion 2) Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent It doesn't take much thinking to conclude that there is something messed up with resource/capital allocation in this economy. But t…

Hypothetically, Bezos could own all of the bars in NYC, decide they are now a bad bet, and not pay their rents. He could invest elsewhere while those businesses go bankrupt. It would be wise of him, in this hypothetical, to deploy capital to a place where it would obtain better returns than propping up a broad cross-section of marginal businesses.

To your last paragraph, all superpowers eventually fade. Look on my works ye mighty and, etc.

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#264

Post by 2Crisp »

therealx wrote: post #197
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a particular portion of this study you're referring to? I don't see anything about risk at vs. beyond your table here.

The CDC just said yesterday that they confirm airborne transmission, and from the case of the choir whom was 6 feet apart, it sure makes it seem beyond one table worth.

"The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) on Monday took down its guidance warning on possible airborne transmission of the novel coronavirus, saying that the draft recommendation was posted in error."

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-cdc-ai...

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#265

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

Yetanfou wrote: post #261
disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, the alternative is to only post on technical topics, where there's a lot less need for the "right" opinions (unless you hate Rust, I guess ;) ).

If only that were true, but political issues have crept into many technical topics in such a way that it is hard to avoid them altogether. Maybe a 'political' flag on politicised (sub)threads can help, together with an option to hide such threads. On some days it will be very quiet here for those who have chosen to hide politics but that only makes them more productive.

I do see what you're saying (and this has been happening since the last US presidential election, so over four years now).

However, I have a bunch of unpopular opinions, and have almost never been downvoted, because I avoid taking sides on political arguments.

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#266

Post by watwut »

just-juan-post wrote: post #202
watwut wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If people are scared and won't go to restaurants If people are responsible and won't go to restaurants ... Or long form: If people know there is infectious disease around with asymptomatic transmission and rationally decide not to go to restaurant to ... Framing does a lot.

> If people are responsible and won't go to restaurants See here's the thing: Just because you and others like you have a certain definition of "responsible" doesn't mean it should or does apply to everyone. Should we ban skydiving because it's irresponsible? Condom-less sex? This is about choice. Re-open and let people and businesses choose. Have a laugh with me tonight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXWhbUUE4ko

None of that implies that systematically trying to frame people who don't go to restaurant as emotional or acting on fear is fair way to frame it.

Disagreement over what is responsible is something entirely different then "your fear".

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#267

Post by abduhl »

ehnto wrote: post #200
just-juan-post wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This isn’t about people making decisions for themselves Making decisions for ones self is exactly the principal that the USA was founded on. > You might be fine, but if you are asymptomatic, you can directly harm or kill others and not even know it. See also: Drinking, condom-less sex, smoking, and junk food. All of these things directly or indirectly harm others and if this is about public safety then it's time yo…

The point of a lockdown is to stop people who think like you from hurting others. If we could trust people to act responsibly we wouldn't need to lockdown so strictly, but in example after example someone who thinks like you will ruin it for everyone. Regardless, the US has largely already decided to be on your side and let you make your own decision about how to act during a pandemic, and the results speak for thems…

I thought the point of the lockdown was to flatten the curve? “Just 14 days to flatten the curve,” if I remember correctly.

How could anyone, including the government, have planned for or implemented a social safety net or bailout for something that has gone on literally 12 times longer than anyone said it would?

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#268

Post by zamadatix »

just-juan-post wrote: post #160
MiroF wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Study Finds Most Restaurants Fail Within First Year Of It Becoming Illegal To Go To Them Even without these laws, personal decisions would have decimated the business regardless. Even in places didn't shut down, patronage plummeted.

If people are scared and won't go to restaurants and bars then why continue to keep them closed? You are saying that patronage is already down so why even restrict them? Give people and businesses a choice in the matter. This is about letting individuals and businesses make their own decisions without the government forcing them to close.

Ignoring the whole "we should open/we should close" debate (I'm not an expert in economics or virology) it's perfectly possible for the vast majority of people to not want to go to bars/restaurants and to need to chose, as a group instead of individual, to close them to lower spread. I.e. >50% doesn't always have the same outcome as 100%

People do get a choice in the matter but part of that is people get a choice whether they want to act independently or enforce a choice (to some level) as a group.

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#269

Post by thu2111 »

dwaltrip wrote: post #171
just-juan-post wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If people are scared and won't go to restaurants and bars then why continue to keep them closed? You are saying that patronage is already down so why even restrict them? Give people and businesses a choice in the matter. This is about letting individuals and businesses make their own decisions without the government forcing them to close.

This isn’t about people making decisions for themselves. It’s about preventing the spread of infectious disease. You might be fine, but if you are asymptomatic, you can directly harm or kill others and not even know it. That being said, I’m not sure what the best policy is. It doesn’t seem feasible to have a complete lockdown that extends for many months. So we have to be clever, keep learning, and find good solution…

You might be fine, but if you are asymptomatic, you can directly harm or kill others and not even know it.

No, this is a rumour that was long since debunked.

Asymptomatic transmission does not exist. Basically no cases have been traced back to that and the WHO no longer supports the concept. WHO officials months ago pointed out this was "very rare" (read: doesn't happen, considering how noisy testing and contact tracing are). This story summarises:

https://bgr.com/2020/08/31/coronavirus-asymptomatic-spread-r...

They (the WHO) distinguish this from "pre-symptomatic transmission" which means you will develop symptoms in a day or two, but are infectious a bit before that happens. This happens with many viruses. It's entirely normal. In the UK right now flu is twice as deadly as COVID, same is true of many other places.

So you have a choice. You can never go out again in case you are about to come down with flu and un-knowingly, via a long and complex chain of events, kill a disabled child. Or you can accept that there's nothing unusual currently happening beyond media and government hysteria, and go to a restaurant before they're all gone.

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#270

Post by thu2111 »

grey-area wrote: post #181
dannyw wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps the "something" is simply antibodies and herd immunity? 1. In April (!!), 1 in 5 NYCers tested positive for antibodies: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/23/nyregion/coronavirus-anti... 2. Given asymmetric social contact patterns, experts estimate that ~20% may be the threshold for herd immunity of COVID: https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-could-it-be-burning-... I support looking at the science, and this…

It's not antibody immunity. That's why I said we don't understand. 20% is nowhere near enough to explain the patterns we're seeing. The good news is that even though we don't understand it, the NY experience does point towards a potentially more muted second wave in areas which were hit hard the first time round (as long as they take precautions at least), but we just don't know enough to be sure - anyone who is sure…

20% is nowhere near enough to explain the patterns we're seeing.

... according to epidemiologists who have been utterly discredited, no. According to other epidemiologists (and just lay amateurs) who have built better models, 20% appears to be about the right threshold when taking into account non-homogenous social mixing and t-cell immunity.

But you don't really need anything fancy to figure this out. Just look at the observed data, messy and contradictory though it is. When antibodies reach 20% the epidemic stops, in many places not just NY.

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