Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

nypost.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

231–240 of 328 posts

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#231

Post by mdrabla »

ABCLAW wrote: post #36
twblalock wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fact that we've been spewing money at asset holders for over a decade is why real-estate metrics are historically crazy. No, the reason is restrictions on building which have constrained supply.

Which would make sense except there are plenty of metropolitan areas which are not physically constrained or suffering horrendous zoning issues which also have the issue. The world exists outside the particular clusterfuck that is the SF bay real estate market.

Bad bot, the subject is NYC not SF. Very different places

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#232

Post by sooheon »

MiroF wrote: post #228
sooheon wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tax the rentier bracket's rent income. The overlap need not be considered. > The reality is that that professional/managerial bracket has a large proportion of both the wealth and income in America This is irrelevant. Tax policy should not be judged by what proportion of total wealth or income it collects, but by the economic incentives it creates and the externalities it offsets.

Actions should be judged by their consequences. Size of the resource collected impacts the impact of the consequence.

> Actions should be judged by their consequences

I agree, we just have different perspectives on which consequences are relevant, and on which timescales.

Optimizing for "size of resource collected" at time 0 affects the system and each agent's incentives within that system, usually leading to the kind of adversarial loophole-chasing/closing we see with income tax and tax havens.

Optimizing for economically sound incentives will lead to higher "impact" (by my definition, reduction of externalities, inefficiency, and inequality) in the long run for a dynamic system, imho.

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#233

Post by just-juan-post »

ehnto wrote: post #226
just-juan-post wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The point of a lockdown is to stop people who think like you from hurting others. So is the point of banning alcohol, unprotected sex, smoking, and junk food. Drunk people can fight me and kill me while drunk driving. Unprotected sex may be more pleasurable but if we want to stop hurting others then condoms must be mandatory. Smoking is an easy one, I can smell that from like 30 feet away. It's clearly getting into…

Drink driving is banned, smoking is banned in many situations and only thanks to tobacco lobbies and tax income is it not entirely banned. Having sex doesn't affect passers by, just the active participants. Junk food you choose to eat yourself, you don't hurt others with it. It can cost taxpayer dollars in medical funding though, if you want to take that angle. There are hundreds of laws to stop people from making ch…

> Drink driving is banned

Yet it still happens and claims innocent victims.

> smoking is banned in many situations

Yet it still happens and claims innocent victims.

> Having sex doesn't affect passers by, just the active participants

By making protection mandatory we keep people safe and healthy.

> Junk food you choose to eat yourself

As stated earlier it has been repeatedly shown that obesity is a social disease.

I haven't even brought up second order effects.

How much police and health care costs would we need by banning alcohol? Can you think of other second order effects?

> This is a once in a lifetime pandemic

This is a once in a lifetime panicdemic.

Is it a pandemic if governments and organizations are begging people to get tested?

Is it a pandemic when less than 1% of populations are positive let alone in a hospital or morgue?

This isn't a pandemic. It's a panicdemic.

Please stop keeping us safe. I appreciate your effort but let me choose.

This is about choice.

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#234

Post by Yetanfou »

just-juan-post wrote: post #209
ehnto wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of a lockdown is to stop people who think like you from hurting others. If we could trust people to act responsibly we wouldn't need to lockdown so strictly, but in example after example someone who thinks like you will ruin it for everyone. Regardless, the US has largely already decided to be on your side and let you make your own decision about how to act during a pandemic, and the results speak for thems…

> The point of a lockdown is to stop people who think like you from hurting others. So is the point of banning alcohol, unprotected sex, smoking, and junk food. Drunk people can fight me and kill me while drunk driving. Unprotected sex may be more pleasurable but if we want to stop hurting others then condoms must be mandatory. Smoking is an easy one, I can smell that from like 30 feet away. It's clearly getting into…

> Note that I'm a leftie and I love the video...

Please don't explicitly state things like this, it only leads to more polarisation. Keep people guessing at your personal political preferences, they should not have any impact on whether what you say is deemed 'acceptable' or not.

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#235

Post by just-juan-post »

Yetanfou wrote: post #234
just-juan-post wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The point of a lockdown is to stop people who think like you from hurting others. So is the point of banning alcohol, unprotected sex, smoking, and junk food. Drunk people can fight me and kill me while drunk driving. Unprotected sex may be more pleasurable but if we want to stop hurting others then condoms must be mandatory. Smoking is an easy one, I can smell that from like 30 feet away. It's clearly getting into…

> Note that I'm a leftie and I love the video... Please don't explicitly state things like this, it only leads to more polarisation. Keep people guessing at your personal political preferences, they should not have any impact on whether what you say is deemed 'acceptable' or not.

Unfortunately it's mandatory because without it I and others like me are quickly branded with assumptive labels.

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#236

Post by Yetanfou »

hinkley wrote: post #206
brutusborn wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BTW, why do you send such a hostile response without trying to answer my question? I genuinely just wanted to understand the Parent.

Frustration in a time of triage. You don’t discuss Philosophy or process while a patient is bleeding out in the table. We should be copycatting solutions we’ve already hashed out before. As others have also asked, why are we discussing this now instead of six months ago? If we had anyone with any leadership in either the Legislative or Executive Branch of the Federal government, we wouldn’t even be having this conver…

These are state issues, not federal issues. Other states have handled things differently, with different results. NYC chose a different path from e.g. Florida (which is closer to the 'Swedish' approach) which has led to a different outcome.

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#237

Post by Yetanfou »

just-juan-post wrote: post #235
Yetanfou wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Note that I'm a leftie and I love the video... Please don't explicitly state things like this, it only leads to more polarisation. Keep people guessing at your personal political preferences, they should not have any impact on whether what you say is deemed 'acceptable' or not.

Unfortunately it's mandatory because without it I and others like me are quickly branded with assumptive labels.

I realise this but the solution is not to wave the don't shoot, I'm with you flag. The real solution is to get the discussion to revolve around the message instead of the messenger. This is a culture change and as such it takes time and you'll have to suffer the (no so) occasional downvote-into-oblivion experience but so be it.

Here comes some ethically questionable but effective advice to stay alive in the HN jungle: if you're low on karma points you just post a few karma-whoring replies to top up the counter. Once you can breathe again you can state your mind freely until that karma counter goes down towards the red zone again after which you need to top it up again. It is very unfortunate that this is needed to stay alive here for those who have not yet built up a sufficient buffer of points but things being the way they are there is no other way for those who like to speak their mind on the edge of the sometimes very narrow Overton window.

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#238

Post by ojhughes »

ehnto wrote: post #200
just-juan-post wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This isn’t about people making decisions for themselves Making decisions for ones self is exactly the principal that the USA was founded on. > You might be fine, but if you are asymptomatic, you can directly harm or kill others and not even know it. See also: Drinking, condom-less sex, smoking, and junk food. All of these things directly or indirectly harm others and if this is about public safety then it's time yo…

The point of a lockdown is to stop people who think like you from hurting others. If we could trust people to act responsibly we wouldn't need to lockdown so strictly, but in example after example someone who thinks like you will ruin it for everyone. Regardless, the US has largely already decided to be on your side and let you make your own decision about how to act during a pandemic, and the results speak for thems…

If mask usage was strictly mandated then lockdowns would be unnecessary. Instead, the topic of masks has been pulled into a ridiculous debate.

I suspect most lockdown supporters live in a comfortable and spacious environment where they work from home. The cost of lockdown is huge for business owners, domestic abuse victims and those with mental illness. There is increasing research that points to the cost of lockdowns being greater than the benefit.

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#239

Post by just-juan-post »

Yetanfou wrote: post #237
just-juan-post wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately it's mandatory because without it I and others like me are quickly branded with assumptive labels.

I realise this but the solution is not to wave the don't shoot, I'm with you flag. The real solution is to get the discussion to revolve around the message instead of the messenger . This is a culture change and as such it takes time and you'll have to suffer the (no so) occasional downvote-into-oblivion experience but so be it. Here comes some ethically questionable but effective advice to stay alive in the HN jungl…

Thanks. For me the big things are:

- Journalists and individuals need to use FOIA actions against their state and local governments to see e-mails to see what the true numbers are. That Nashville situation is absurd and we all know it's happening at a bunch of other places.

- Middle class / "regular people" need to start speaking openly and questioning and discussing the lifestyle restrictions and closures.

- A message of safety indirectly spreads a message of fear. Stop with all of the unnecessary post-Covid new normal "safety" things.

- It's about choice and we are pro choice.

Re: Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pay August rent

#240

Post by [deleted] »

ojhughes wrote: post #238
ehnto wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of a lockdown is to stop people who think like you from hurting others. If we could trust people to act responsibly we wouldn't need to lockdown so strictly, but in example after example someone who thinks like you will ruin it for everyone. Regardless, the US has largely already decided to be on your side and let you make your own decision about how to act during a pandemic, and the results speak for thems…

If mask usage was strictly mandated then lockdowns would be unnecessary. Instead, the topic of masks has been pulled into a ridiculous debate. I suspect most lockdown supporters live in a comfortable and spacious environment where they work from home. The cost of lockdown is huge for business owners, domestic abuse victims and those with mental illness. There is increasing research that points to the cost of lockdown…

[deleted]
Post reply on HN