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I no longer build software

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Re: I no longer build software

#861

Post by xkcd-sucks »

cptskippy wrote: post #496
dcolkitt wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

20+ years ago, a sizable chunk of the software workforce was dedicated to converting legacy systems from 2 digit year codes into 4 digits. The notion that all the interesting work was done in yesteryear is just looking at the past through rose-colored glasses. At any time in history most software work was glue code. Because the low-hanging fruit is always going to be taking existing systems and applying small tweaks…

20 years ago I was writing one of the first online endorsement engines for producers (independent insurance agents) to allow them to make endorsements on insurance policies over the internet rather than having to speak to an underwriter on the phone. We built a single web front end that was to be used by both the underwriters and the producers. I remember showing off the role based permissions structure we had in pla…

> When was the last time you had to speak to an agent or underwriter on the phone to make changes to your insurance policy?

today, and every time. Would like to switch to geico / someone else with web interface but the rates aren't as good and the customer service isn't as guaranteed

Re: I no longer build software

#862

Post by xkcd-sucks »

henrik_w wrote: post #256
cpursley wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most of the available programming work is really just writing glue code to make big software systems work as intended, to the point where it can feel more like writing configuration files than actual programming. Put simply, 98% of programming these days is scripting. It's that the entire purpose of programming, though? To abstract away the repetitive stuff? I personally see this as a good thing. Even with all the…

For most companies where the software is the product, there is some part of the system that is the core logic. Working on that part necessarily means actually developing, not just gluing pieces together. I have always been able to find work where I could work on those core parts, instead of composing existing systems, libraries and frameworks.

At many lucrative companies, writing the configs for third party software is the core product

Maybe in that case you could call the core product "domain expertise" but it's not how they position themselves

Re: I no longer build software

#863

Post by k_sze »

moneywoes wrote: post #832
mauvehaus wrote: post #123

Holy shit, this is me! A couple things to clarify: I posted the original issue as a minor complaint about the docker cli and promptly forgot about it. I never expected it to get any traction or follow-up. At the time I posted it, I was working as a contractor for my former full time employer. I had left full-time work there in early 2017 to attend the full-time program at the (sadly now-defunct) Furniture Institute o…

What type of containers do you ship your furniture in?

Not Docker, obviously. :)

“Look, the cabinet did not break down in my living room. So I’ll ship you the cabinet with the whole living room together.”

Re: I no longer build software

#864

Post by xvector »

coldtea wrote: post #275
chpmrc wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can order a comfy car anywhere I am with the tap of a button. I can order food from hundreds of restaurants and have it delivered in less than 30 mins with the tap of a button. I can book flights and hotels with the tap of a button. I can play with friends in virtual reality and actually sweat. I can watch a live stream of SpaceX launching reusable rockets in space. I could buy a car that is almost fully "self driv…

So we've mostly solved trivial non-problems if/not regressions? People lived in 1990 and didn't feel that bad to have to call a travel agency to get a ticket, or, god forbid, to actually meet friends and not in VR space... I'll give you "self driving cars" -- well, I would if they could work today, which they don't...

The “trivial problems” you mention have taken hundreds of thousands of engineers three decades to solve.

As other people have mentioned, it’s awfully reductive to classify these problems as trivial. You think they are trivial because the solutions have been done well. You do not see the millions of man-hours that have gone into fixing these problems because you are not supposed to.

Life today is radically different than the 90s, and for the better. The power of the individual has significantly increased with the last three decades of technological progress.

Re: I no longer build software

#865

Post by bserge »

krageon wrote: post #297
bserge wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the case in most industries. Find me one that isn't just about the daily grind and making money. In construction, you could do cool stuff, and do things perfectly, but people want "normal" and time is money so you need to work fast. If you have an auto repair shop, you could build an EV from scratch. But you're getting paid to fix other people's cars. Even if you do tuning and modding, it's all just standardiz…

So what you're saying is that it's indeed shit, just like everything else?

Yes, however when everything is shit, perhaps it's our mindset that needs to change. Learn to enjoy what we've got, because while you can try getting into a better position, it really might not get better. And there's nothing wrong with that.

Re: I no longer build software

#866

Post by DarkWiiPlayer »

Sevii wrote: post #542
chpmrc wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can order a comfy car anywhere I am with the tap of a button. I can order food from hundreds of restaurants and have it delivered in less than 30 mins with the tap of a button. I can book flights and hotels with the tap of a button. I can play with friends in virtual reality and actually sweat. I can watch a live stream of SpaceX launching reusable rockets in space. I could buy a car that is almost fully "self driv…

Yes, you can get paid to build interesting things. But the work you will be doing is not going to be interesting. Working as part of a team with the 1000s of engineers on Uber or Office or Alexa is going to be tedious no matter how valuable you think the product is.

That wasn't what I meant with "interesting" though. Useful and polished products often involve tedious work. What I mean when I say "interesting" is that the programming involves something new and different. Messing around with unconventional and weird data structures, trying out new niche languages and paradigms, etc.

Re: I no longer build software

#867

Post by burntoutfire »

zerr wrote: post #785
burntoutfire wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm from Poland. Of course, everything depends on the conditions of the retirement that you're comfortable with. For me, it's 5000 PLN ($1300) a month till I'm 85 years old + paid-off house. The 5k PLN should be very comfortable assuming no children, which I don't want. Assuming ultra-safe investing to only protect the principal (i.e. no return above inflation) and wanting to retire at 40, you'd need around 2,500,000…

You're way underpaid, even by Polish standards. You can easily get a remote job e.g. at German company that pays 70K-90K+ EUR.

I was giving net numbers. Assuming I pay 19% taxes in Poland on that remote job income, the range you've given translates to 240k-310k PLN net.

Also, I myself happen to make over 400k net PLN per year, but I didn't want to use myself as an example, as I only know a handful of people who make that much - so it's perhaps not something you 100% can count, whereas the 250k per year number is absolutely attainable by any senior dev with reasonable/modern CV and good negotiating/job hopping skills.

Re: I no longer build software

#868

Post by krageon »

bserge wrote: post #865
krageon wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what you're saying is that it's indeed shit, just like everything else?

Yes, however when everything is shit, perhaps it's our mindset that needs to change. Learn to enjoy what we've got, because while you can try getting into a better position, it really might not get better. And there's nothing wrong with that.

That's a good point, in a lot of cases the major impact that you make on the world is being part of the machinery that keeps everyone's food, entertainment and housing maintained.

Re: I no longer build software

#869

Post by etripe »

TheCoelacanth wrote: post #722
etripe wrote: post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think git sucks, which VCS sucks less? I've only tried TFS and SVN myself, but I find git the best option among them.

Mercurial is a contender

I guess I'll have to try it out one of these days, thanks!

Re: I no longer build software

#870

Post by notacoward »

jlos wrote: post #661
notacoward wrote: post #125

Totally on board with not building software any more. In fact, at 55 this is my last week of it. For real. Basically, everything sucks more about building software nowadays more than I remember it sucking before, from the mere mechanics of navigating through an obscenely large pseudo-object-oriented codebase to the WRONG constructs/idioms people use to build distributed systems to the way software is packaged and dep…

>> I sincerely feel bad for people who have to stay in it This seems a really sheltered perspective without a real idea of the kinda struggles that exist for a lot of other careers. Not unlike some doctor/lawyer/scientist/executive talking about the profession as a "train to hell" because it doesn't satisfy some sense of technical purity. Before building software, I was stuck in dead-end sales jobs with a humanities…

That's a good point, and I am grateful. "Train to hell" was hyperbole. Programming is still a damn good profession compared to many others. It's also far less than it could be. These statements can both be true simultaneously. After some years of the particular issues that affect older programmers, made worse by the fact that they're almost completely ignored in a youth-dominated industry, 55-year-old you might be less sanguine about the whole thing. Don't be quick to judge when the other person has been where you are and not vice versa.
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