Live data from Hacker News

I no longer build software

github.com

661–670 of 891 posts

Re: I no longer build software

#661

Totally on board with not building software any more. In fact, at 55 this is my last week of it. For real. Basically, everything sucks more about building software nowadays more than I remember it sucking before, from the mere mechanics of navigating through an obscenely large pseudo-object-oriented codebase to the WRONG constructs/idioms people use to build distributed systems to the way software is packaged and dep…

>> I sincerely feel bad for people who have to stay in it

This seems a really sheltered perspective without a real idea of the kinda struggles that exist for a lot of other careers. Not unlike some doctor/lawyer/scientist/executive talking about the profession as a "train to hell" because it doesn't satisfy some sense of technical purity.

Before building software, I was stuck in dead-end sales jobs with a humanities degree that had no career prospects. Switching to software development has required a great deal of sacrifice, and I'm genuinely thankful every day I get to write code for a living I'm thankful.

- I'm thankful I can get paid well enough to live comfortably.

- I'm thankful I work in clean, climate-controlled offices.

- I'm thankful for a profession full of interesting people to work with.

- I'm thankful I can engage my mind and excercise a certain amount of creativity in my work.

I really hope 55 year old me can remember to be thankful.

Re: I no longer build software

#662

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems like an awfully reductionist take, and is demonstrably wrong. > to actually meet friends and not in VR space Nintendo released the Virtual Boy in the 90s, a (somewhat unsuccessful) attempt at a semi-VR thing; they were (and are) a pretty big business, and I don't think that they were just doing it because they thought it was cool; there was demand for something like virtual reality at the time. > People li…

Wow, "demonstrably wrong" are incredibly strong words given the lacking counter arguments you provided. I remember when the virtual boy came out. It was a disaster. From wikipedia: "The Virtual Boy was panned by critics and was a commercial failure, even after repeated price drops." And the second one, bringing up that one time your dad was annoyed to book a plane ticket. Not much more needs to be said. What exactly…

I agree, the Virtual Boy was a disaster, but maybe I didn't illustrate my point very well, and that is my fault; I'll give you an upvote to help counteract the downvotes because I probably didn't explain myself correctly.

What I was trying to say that clearly the was some demand for the virtual reality of some kind; I'm sure Nintendo did some level of market research; concurrently, Atari and Sega was also working on VR projects, these demos were pretty popular in expos, so my point was that it's not a recent thing to want to VR in the home.

I disclaimed that me using my dad as an example was anecdata, but (assuming I'm not lying), it does prove the existence of at least one person's demand for such a product. The post I was responding to said specifically "People lived in 1990 and didn't feel that bad to have to call a travel agency to get a ticket", and I was giving a counter-claim to that. The last time I checked, my dad was a person, and did feel "that bad" calling a travel agency. Also, it wasn't "one time", it was throughout most of the 90's, though I mostly remember this from 1995-1997 because I was previously a bit too young to pay much attention to this stuff.

Now, fair enough, I didn't link to studies proving my point, so I probably used the word "demonstrably" incorrectly, and I apologize for any confusion that might have resulted from that.

Re: I no longer build software

#663

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are right to say that the methods are vastly improved, but the ends to which those methods are applied have become ever more uninteresting (for a lot of people), and often morally suspect. We have built exquisite tools, but we use them to extract profit, to manipulate behaviour and often for no discernable purpose at all. Programming has become joyless. There are ever-shrinking spaces where a developer ge…

Unfortunately I agree with this. A great quote I saw a while ago: “The best minds of my generation are thinking about how to make people click ads.” –Jeff Hammerbacher Every paying software job I've ever had was in some way involved getting people to click on ads. Either directly making a product where ad click rate is a measured metric, or products that helped people make products where clicking on ads was a metric.…

> Every paying software job I've ever had was in some way involved getting people to click on ads.

This is interesting, thanks for sharing that.

Of the nine organizations that have paid me to write software since 1993, only one of them would fit in your criteria.

Note: I am in no way doubting your claim, and I actually appreciate your perspective and the quote you cited.

I will more deeply consider that when categorizing companies in my mind going forward.

Re: I no longer build software

#664
post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can order a comfy car anywhere I am with the tap of a button. I can order food from hundreds of restaurants and have it delivered in less than 30 mins with the tap of a button. I can book flights and hotels with the tap of a button. I can play with friends in virtual reality and actually sweat. I can watch a live stream of SpaceX launching reusable rockets in space. I could buy a car that is almost fully "self driv…

Reading this litany of technologically-enabled consumer achievements, I thought of David Graeber who visited the disappointment we sometimes feel for how things actually went from mid-century to now. "[...]Where, in short, are the flying cars? Where are the force fields, tractor beams, teleportation pods, antigravity sleds, tricorders, immortality drugs, colonies on Mars, and all the other technological wonders any c…

>Might the cultural sensibility that came to be referred to as postmodernism best be seen as a prolonged meditation on all the technological changes that never happened? The question struck me as I watched one of the recent Star Wars movies. The movie was terrible, but I couldn’t help but feel impressed by the quality of the special effects. Recalling the clumsy special effects typical of fifties sci-fi films, I kept thinking how impressed a fifties audience would have been if they’d known what we could do by now—only to realize, “Actually, no. They wouldn’t be impressed at all, would they? They thought we’d be doing this kind of thing by now. Not just figuring out more sophisticated ways to simulate it.”

>That last word—simulate—is key. The technologies that have advanced since the seventies are mainly either medical technologies or information technologies—largely, technologies of simulation. They are technologies of what Jean Baudrillard and Umberto Eco called the “hyper-real,” the ability to make imitations that are more realistic than originals. The postmodern sensibility, the feeling that we had somehow broken into an unprecedented new historical period in which we understood that there is nothing new; that grand historical narratives of progress and liberation were meaningless; that everything now was simulation, ironic repetition, fragmentation, and pastiche—all this makes sense in a technological environment in which the only breakthroughs were those that made it easier to create, transfer, and rearrange virtual projections of things that either already existed, or, we came to realize, never would. Surely, if we were vacationing in geodesic domes on Mars or toting about pocket-size nuclear fusion plants or telekinetic mind-reading devices no one would ever have been talking like this. The postmodern moment was a desperate way to take what could otherwise only be felt as a bitter disappointment and to dress it up as something epochal, exciting, and new.

This occasionally strikes me as true when reading some of the comments in this thread about how it's easier than ever to deploy because of a new tool, easier to create a website or app because of a new framework, easier to order a car, easier to buy an airplane ticket..

I can't help but consider that we expected so, so much more.

Re: I no longer build software

#665
I understand this sentiment. Software can still be a lucrative and fulfilling field to work in, though perhaps not as uniformly as back in some sort of day. Perhaps the motivators for starting a tech career are different today. I work in government data transparency, and my work directly affects (hopefully positively) the communities that use our product. The code part is fun, but wouldn't be sufficient to keep me there alone. Have I taken a financial hit for taking a social-impact track vs. something else? Without a doubt. It works for me, though, in a way that optimizing for "the engineering experience" would definitely not have.

If you're feeling burnt out but want/need to stay in coding, perhaps it is worthwhile to think about how much "fulfillment" you require from coding tasks. If you find you want to reduce it, could think about: * Mentoring other devs. It's very fulfilling to help someone grow. * Take a pay cut and work at a nonprofit/B-corp/mission-driven regular corp. There are tons of these. There are lists (i.e., climatescape) but ask around. * Traditional hobbies. Woodworking, painting, gardening, travel, music, etc. If you'd prefer to stay technical, some tech-adjacent hobbies with vibrant and exciting communities are retrocomputing (say, check out Adrian's Digital Basement on YouTube), cosplay/prop making (check out the Role Play Forum, there's some extremely knowledgeable people there), security capture-the-flag events, 3d printing... many choices. I feel we live in a hobby golden age - there's so many excellent online communities for seemingly every niche or mainstream hobby.

Re: I no longer build software

#666
post #623

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Playing with legos is easier then delivering value.

Playing with legos is delivering value. Reinventing the same wheel over and over again is not.

Agreed but that is not what is happening though ; people do both; they use legos and reinvent the wheel. Making everything, imho, worse.

The authentication thingy you got as lego block did not quite fit and now you are using more code than the module has in it to add what you need for it to do, making the original module probably impossible to upgrade without a lot of work and creating a problem for maintenance. Now you can fix this by telling your client; ok, I won’t do this because your idea of auth is wrong. But then the client might kick me out (probably not a bad plan if they are doing trivial things significantly different than the rest of the world). I can just implement it like I mentioned above and make money maintaining it (risking having also to maintain the original lib). Or I can just make a new lib and for which I know it does what it was.

Then, my favourite option, is just take something that just works already, deploy that and adapt a few people their habits around it. It fits 95%, stop whining. The least popular option ofcourse, so there we are, creating slightly different wheels with millions of almost the same LoC and unused andor unmanaged libs that should not have been written or used, again, imho.

Re: I no longer build software

#667

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It goes without saying that your feelings are personal ones, totally valid, and nobody can really question them. I'm 20 years behind you, and I don't know what effect that will have on my views. But I don't really recognise the picture you're painting. Compared to the first steps I took as a developer about 15 years ago, almost everything about software development seems better to me. I find developing software to be…

I'm ~23 years behind GP, and I feel the same way as them already. Goes to say, this may be a matter of personality. There were few and brief moments in my career as a software developer when I was truly happy at my work. Most of those involved implementing an architecture or algorithm I figured out from scratch, or took from scientific literature - either as prototype or directly in the product. Sometimes as "hold my…

> I've learned a coping strategy: just forget the project scope and focus on your little plot of land.

I get what your are saying and you are getting a lot of positive reinforcement about this. I would suggest to you a caveat.

I've worked in some orgs where this mentality becomes entrenched. In these new-fangled tech startups with people changing roles and even companies every two years this probably happens less. But I've seen people entrenched into their own kingdoms for decades. An individual, or small team, creates a moat around their "little plot of land" and they become intransigent. This leads to two bad outcomes: they resist any change to their systems or process, going so far as to obfuscate it to protect it. They also don't pay attention to holistic concerns, caring only about maintaining some idyllic vision for their own "plot of land" to the detriment of any larger objectives.

I think this is a real concern when divisions within a larger org compartmentalize around code or system boundaries. It is not something to shrug off as if it couldn't happen to you.

Re: I no longer build software

#669

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't know why this was downvoted. As someone living in Europe, this comment is exactly why I stay in my cushy, very well paying and super boring and frustrating backend job. In the backend world, there are dozens of employees who would be happy for me to come work for them, while market for interesting work with similar is very shallow here (a very limited selection of FAANGs, what else?). I don't want to move to th…

Where do you live in Europe if I may ask that pays well enough for backend dev as not to work until you're 60? Genuinely curious as I'm open to a move.

I live in germany here you can earn a decent salary if your in one of the mayor cities.

Re: I no longer build software

#670

Totally on board with not building software any more. In fact, at 55 this is my last week of it. For real. Basically, everything sucks more about building software nowadays more than I remember it sucking before, from the mere mechanics of navigating through an obscenely large pseudo-object-oriented codebase to the WRONG constructs/idioms people use to build distributed systems to the way software is packaged and dep…

People used to really hate farming too. How do I know this isn't more of the same?
Post reply on HN