I no longer build software • Hacker News Board

Re: I no longer build software

#301

Post by jcranmer » Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 1:46 PM UTC

vbsteven wrote: post #98

read_if_gay_ wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Today it's just digital plumbing and dealing with all sorts of issues that are not creative. The sheer complexity is frankly absurd as well. Is this not a contradiction to you?

I feel the same way. The plumbing required has become so complex these last few years (if you use new technology). 10 years ago we uploaded the server/backend binary to a VM, installed postgres/mysql and configured nginx/haproxy as a reverse proxy/ssl termination. Now, if you want to deploy a modern SPA while using some buzzwords like k8s and devops you need: * complex frontend build process with things like webpack…

What you're complaining about is basically that certain features have become simpler to the point that it's feasible to have them in more situations--and adding those features adds a certain amount of complexity.

There are three overlapping issues in what you talk about:

* Moving from bare metal servers to VMs to containers, with cloud deployment optionally thrown in there somewhere.

* Moving from hand deployment to continuous integration.

* Moving from monolithic applications to microservices.

Re: I no longer build software

#302

Post by mkoubaa » Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 1:46 PM UTC

amelius wrote: post #66

busterarm wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Add me to the list of software developers who desires to switch to woodworking/machining.

How about robotics? It would allow you to combine mechanical engineering with CS.

A lot of modern mechanical engineering practice is building and using software.

Source: am a mechanical engineer who works on my industry's software

Re: I no longer build software

#303

Post by PinguTS » Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 1:46 PM UTC

derefr wrote: post #287

yoz-y wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uhh. Before I didn’t even have Internet, much less a screen on which I could tap on a button.

I think the implication is that ride hailing, delivery ordering, and flight/hotel booking were possible to do by calling the company on the telephone . Which— if you already know precisely what you want—has almost as little friction as opening an app and tapping a button. (And to make that apply more often, these companies used to distribute fliers containing their “browsable UI.”) “Live streams” of rocket launches w…

We had even Uber without having to phone someone in the 1980s. It was called black taxi market and you really just hailed a car in the street.

Re: I no longer build software

#304

Post by chpmrc » Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 1:47 PM UTC

derefr wrote: post #287

yoz-y wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uhh. Before I didn’t even have Internet, much less a screen on which I could tap on a button.

I think the implication is that ride hailing, delivery ordering, and flight/hotel booking were possible to do by calling the company on the telephone . Which— if you already know precisely what you want—has almost as little friction as opening an app and tapping a button. (And to make that apply more often, these companies used to distribute fliers containing their “browsable UI.”) “Live streams” of rocket launches w…

Calling has absolutely not the same friction as using an app. It's orders of magnitudes less efficient, more expensive and sometimes just impossible (good luck calling radio taxi in some countries where you don't speak the language). I think comparing what we could do 20+ years ago with what we can do now and saying "meh" is outright absurd. But, hey, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Re: I no longer build software

#305

Post by driverdan » Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 1:47 PM UTC

lxrbst wrote: post #147

While I occasionally dream about working on cars or motorcycles at times instead of sitting in front of a computer all day, I think we tend to forget how good of a career developing is. When we picture our dream of doing a simple trade, we only think of the most awesome part of that trade. If I'm a car mechanic, most of it too is just trivial oil and tire changes or changing a basic part of two - not working on engin…

> most of it too is just trivial oil and tire changes or changing a basic part of two

And those types of jobs are the most likely to have higher margins.

Re: I no longer build software

#306

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 1:47 PM UTC

lxrbst wrote: post #147

While I occasionally dream about working on cars or motorcycles at times instead of sitting in front of a computer all day, I think we tend to forget how good of a career developing is. When we picture our dream of doing a simple trade, we only think of the most awesome part of that trade. If I'm a car mechanic, most of it too is just trivial oil and tire changes or changing a basic part of two - not working on engin…

[deleted]

Re: I no longer build software

#307

Post by celsoazevedo » Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 1:48 PM UTC

plazmatic wrote: post #234

chpmrc wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can order a comfy car anywhere I am with the tap of a button. I can order food from hundreds of restaurants and have it delivered in less than 30 mins with the tap of a button. I can book flights and hotels with the tap of a button. I can play with friends in virtual reality and actually sweat. I can watch a live stream of SpaceX launching reusable rockets in space. I could buy a car that is almost fully "self driv…

All this, yet the world is unquestionably getting worse. Crazy times.

Is the world really getting worse or is the amount of negative information we digest daily affecting our perception of how good or bad things actually are?

Re: I no longer build software

#308

Post by notacoward » Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 1:48 PM UTC

mabbo wrote: post #252

notacoward wrote: post #125

Totally on board with not building software any more. In fact, at 55 this is my last week of it. For real. Basically, everything sucks more about building software nowadays more than I remember it sucking before, from the mere mechanics of navigating through an obscenely large pseudo-object-oriented codebase to the WRONG constructs/idioms people use to build distributed systems to the way software is packaged and dep…

> Some day most of you will get over the dollar-induced Stockholm Syndrome that seems universal among junior developers We aren't working hard because we just want money. We want to save up enough money so that we can retire at 55 and stop working. Then we can start spending all our time complaining that the software industry is going in the wrong direction. Because in any other industry, the effort:earnings ration i…

> We want to save up enough money so that we can retire at 55 and stop working.

If that's what anyone takes away from my jeremiad, then I actually think that's pretty great. Except ... why not 45? Maybe if more people could use software development as a quick route to something else that created more personal satisfaction and/or social value, that would actually be a good outcome. A bit more "it's just a job" and a bit less "it's my holy calling" is a necessary ingredient in that formula.

Re: I no longer build software

#309

Post by coldtea » Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 1:48 PM UTC

derefr wrote: post #300

coldtea wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So we've mostly solved trivial non-problems if/not regressions? People lived in 1990 and didn't feel that bad to have to call a travel agency to get a ticket, or, god forbid, to actually meet friends and not in VR space... I'll give you "self driving cars" -- well, I would if they could work today, which they don't...

> or, god forbid, to actually meet friends and not in VR space... These technologies really do solve problems for some people. Ignoring the temporary problem it’s solving for most-everyone right now, VR lets quadriplegics and house-bound invalids go places that aren’t accessible, e.g. the middle of the jungle. And VR is also useful for assisted visualization in the treatment of PTSD and other associated disorders. Th…

>These technologies really do solve problems for some people. Ignoring the temporary problem it’s solving for most-everyone right now, VR lets quadriplegics and house-bound invalids go places that aren’t accessible, e.g. the middle of the jungle. And VR is also useful for assisted visualization in the treatment of PTSD and other associated disorders.

Yeah, that's a valid market. But they're touted as some ultimate revolution / need, to everybody, when they're trivial in utility (outside that niche), few asked for them or would care about them without heavy marketing, and all at the same time basic needs (like health, a job, housing, education) get increasingly shitty...

Re: I no longer build software

#310

Post by christiansakai » Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 1:48 PM UTC

The grass is always greener on the other side. Let's see.

I have 3 degrees in unrelated field (Industrial Eng, Theology, and CompSci), and worked in on a few careers, white collar jobs like being a sales engineer at a biodiesel company, helping running a cafe for a family business, being a church administrator before the current software engineering. I also worked on low paid labor jobs such as laundry, dry cleaning, deli, restaurant. All with their own physical risk, tiredness, stress from customers, etc.

The current job which is software engineering is far better than any other jobs that I had. It is pretty stable, great income, great benefits, stress free, not limited to space and time, can WFH, more flexible schedule, etc. I like software engineering a lot so I did side projects on the side, learning various programming languages, programming techniques, reading programming books, etc.

Now I am bored of all of those as well, and right now just focusing on my hobbies. I am focusing a lot on my musical skills right now, and that's the only thing that captivates my mind daily, not programming books, programming podcasts, etc anymore. Software is just another job. I'm not changing the world, not saving lives, not helping solving global warming or pollution or the declining flora and fauna that we have, or ending wars. It's riddled with churn mentality in this industry, politics, etc.

Somedays I dream of making it in the music industry, or creating a small cafe with aquascapes that I create as decorations, or not having to work at software anymore, or not having to work because I need income.

But in the end, I still work as SWE. The grass is always greener on the other side, and that depends on one's position in life like age, economic situation, etc. Right now I don't have the luxury of leaving my SWE jobs, and no I don't do this for myself, but for my family members.