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I no longer build software

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Re: I no longer build software

#131

Post by jordache »

matkoniecz wrote: post #104
jordache wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it pays well for as a job, what else can you ask for? Unless you are independently wealthy, how can one be so picky as to complain about the nuances of software development at the tooling/dependency management level? Sheesh Look at the broader job market. Compare the pros n' cons of any career against software development. Compare the barrier to entry, demand, and other market conditions. Software dev comes out pr…

I will complain about whatever I want. I will not force others to hear/read it or agree with me. But I will do this and I will not care about other describing it as a picky and entitled.

ok snowflake. You put your opinion on a public forum. Do not respond with such an attitude. In the context of this discussion, no one cares about your personal feeling when confronted with a feedback of being picky and entitled.

We simply want an exchange of opinions from both columns.

Re: I no longer build software

#132

Post by buddhiajuke »

kilbuz wrote: post #36
bluebit wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question, what is a great career pivot for someone that's been in development all their life? It seems that nothing pays as well as building software, unless you go into management which most developers would enjoy even less than digital plumbing.

Perhaps something software-adjacent, such as a statistician.

Or dentist.

Re: I no longer build software

#133

Post by WillAdams »

It's kind of interesting to me that at least one other notably talented programmer, Glenn Reid, formerly of Adobe and author of "The Green Book" and developer of Touchtype.app and PasteUp.app chose to move on to building furniture by hand.

By way of contrast, I've been trying to puzzle out how to do woodworking programmatically which has been an interesting exercise, since traditional CAD/CAM is quite limited in its assumptions, and the tools which are accessible to me (in terms of them matching how I think/work and having an immediate, applicable preview): BlockSCAD and OpenSCAD are rather limited in their ability to export files (DXF, SVG, STL) --- in particular, I'd like the ability to write out a text file w/ full control over the contents, but that's not viewed as a valid request by the devs.

Making progress though:

- http://tug.org/TUGboat/tb40-2/tb125adams-3d.pdf - https://willadams.gitbook.io/design-into-3d/3d-project

I just wish it were easier to make G-Code in 3D (unfortunately, I don't find the obvious tool at tplang.org very workable with my approaches).

Re: I no longer build software

#134

Post by knute »

christophilus wrote: post #84
jb1991 wrote: post #20

Amen. Modern software development is frankly kinda sucky. The old days pre-2000 were arguably a lot more enjoyable. Today it's just digital plumbing and dealing with all sorts of issues that are not creative. The sheer complexity is frankly absurd as well. I've thought about moving on from software many times, and I know many who have. Just because you can do something doesn't mean it's best way to spend your short l…

I was just starting pre 2000, but it was not much better. I had to deal with a legacy COBOL system. I had to write C++. VB6 was actually pretty great for doing quick plumbing. And C# + WinForms which succeeded it was also great. But in the end, I’m still solving problems today, just like I was back then. I still enjoy programming as much or more than I did then. Some super tedious things have gotten substantially eas…

In the early 1990s and early 2000s web development was a nightmare. Having to test not just in different browsers, but different versions of different browsers, because they had substantially different behaviors. There was no "Inspect element", JavaScript debuggers were entirely absent or incredibly crude. Getting a decent looking web page to render and function correctly across all the different browsers you supported was a real achievement. You spent most of your time fighting browsers, not making actual progress.

Re: I no longer build software

#135

Post by ux-app »

vbsteven wrote: post #98
read_if_gay_ wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Today it's just digital plumbing and dealing with all sorts of issues that are not creative. The sheer complexity is frankly absurd as well. Is this not a contradiction to you?

I feel the same way. The plumbing required has become so complex these last few years (if you use new technology). 10 years ago we uploaded the server/backend binary to a VM, installed postgres/mysql and configured nginx/haproxy as a reverse proxy/ssl termination. Now, if you want to deploy a modern SPA while using some buzzwords like k8s and devops you need: * complex frontend build process with things like webpack…

none of that is required. chasing fad based development would make you think that it is, but there are a lot of successful products that aren't burdened with all this cruft.

Re: I no longer build software

#136

Post by selfhoster11 »

jb1991 wrote: post #20

Amen. Modern software development is frankly kinda sucky. The old days pre-2000 were arguably a lot more enjoyable. Today it's just digital plumbing and dealing with all sorts of issues that are not creative. The sheer complexity is frankly absurd as well. I've thought about moving on from software many times, and I know many who have. Just because you can do something doesn't mean it's best way to spend your short l…

It's digital plumbing, but it pays well. My parents did physical work, and frankly I'd rather earn my keep with a keyboard than with my hands.

Re: I no longer build software

#137

Post by HatchedLake721 »

SXX wrote: post #94
SXX wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a lot of people from US here on HN so you should clarify that you talking about salaries after tax. E.g $1000 in Russia would be the same as $2000 in the US since employer pays 33-49% of salary as taxes. In my home town called Rostov-on-Don (10th largest city in Russia) I have friends who make $2500-3000 after tax for their software engineer and devops positions. Some of these people are far from being a roc…

Another interesting fact: if you're freelance software developer in Russia who work remotely for western company and register as entrepreneur then your efficient tax rate at most is 8% for fees and taxes. Then let's say 1% extra for banking and accounting, etc. So you basically keep more than 90% of income. And there is even lower tax rate options available if you work alone and earn between $10,000-80,000 / year. Yo…

Anyone doubting the fintech claim, have a look at this https://www-ft-com.libezproxy.open.ac.uk/content/38967766-ae...

TLDR: Russia's IRS/HRMC equivalent digitized VAT collection (similar to sales tax). Basically every 90 seconds all tills/cash registers across the country report back the sale to the taxman, so you don't even have to manually submit any VAT returns.

Russia started with 20% tax gap between revenue due and revenue collected (while e.g. UK is at 9.1%), and now after this they are on 1%.

My understanding it's almost real-time tax reporting with millions of tills acting as IoT devices sending data up.

Re: I no longer build software

#138

Post by non-entity »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #81
lukaszkups wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how? SAP/ERP consulting?

Embedded programming i.e. automotive, industrial, aerospace. The problem is they pay poorly in comparison to web dev but are a lot more stable long term.

And how many of those are going to let you in without at least a decade of experience in the specific domain, and real world experience with whatever guidelines or practices they use (i.e. MISRA for X).

Re: I no longer build software

#139

Post by eeZah7Ux »

vbsteven wrote: post #98
read_if_gay_ wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Today it's just digital plumbing and dealing with all sorts of issues that are not creative. The sheer complexity is frankly absurd as well. Is this not a contradiction to you?

I feel the same way. The plumbing required has become so complex these last few years (if you use new technology). 10 years ago we uploaded the server/backend binary to a VM, installed postgres/mysql and configured nginx/haproxy as a reverse proxy/ssl termination. Now, if you want to deploy a modern SPA while using some buzzwords like k8s and devops you need: * complex frontend build process with things like webpack…

The plethora of tools to make "devops" simpler and cheaper made it much more expensive.

You cannot simplify something by adding overly complex layers of abstraction on top of it.

Re: I no longer build software

#140

Post by franky47 »

jacquesm wrote: post #106
franky47 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Add me too. Somehow the joy of seeing things being built from raw materials in the real world equates that of complex software being created out of nothing. But the finite element of the real world has that extra satisfying element: no dependencies to update, (mostly) no security patches, generally less maintenance, and it lasts longer.

No undo button. CTRL-z is the thing you will miss most in the real world.

True, for immediate things having this ability is a godsend. But as software and bugs "dry up", it can get just as hard to chisel out as physical material.
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