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A death sentence for a young Chinese businesswoman chills entrepreneurs

economist.com

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Re: A death sentence for a young Chinese businesswoman chills entrepreneurs

#51

Post by varjag »

cstross wrote: post #38
dublinclontarf wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but they're going to execute her.You get that? She going to die.

Playing devil's advocate here -- I'm totally opposed to the death penalty. However ... From the government's point of view, why should crimes of violence like murder or aggravated sexual assault warrant a harsh punishment, but economic crimes that affect vastly greater numbers of people receive more lenient treatment? Given that we can approximate a lifetime's productive labour to, say, $1M, a fraud involving multipl…

Your point makes perfect sense if one is of opinion that human life can be pegged to monetary value at some exchange rate. And this is indeed the founding assumption at which many totalitarian regimes operate.

Re: A death sentence for a young Chinese businesswoman chills entrepreneurs

#52

Post by aptsurdist »

This is horrifying and I don't even know where to start examining the problem. Firstly, how do we trust any news source on a case like this when the press is controlled by the accuser? Second, even if the sentence is 'legally correct,' when does the threat of a human rights violation become too important to ignore - should countries be pressured to abolish death sentences (at least) for non-violent crimes? Even if the death penalty is the 'official' punishment to fit the crime, certainly it's a big problem if the actual delivery of that sentence is relegated to a minority of cases in which the government is motivated to prosecute. Of course selective prosecution is a problem with any legal system, but when the sentence is death it is all the more important to monitor cases through a transparent system. It doesn't seem that this kind of transparency is in place. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/08/23/business/main67982... see: "...the judicial system is overly secretive in deciding on death penalty cases." http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2014070,00.htm... see: "...opaqueness of its legal system."

Re: A death sentence for a young Chinese businesswoman chills entrepreneurs

#53

Post by aptsurdist »

aptsurdist wrote: post #52

This is horrifying and I don't even know where to start examining the problem. Firstly, how do we trust any news source on a case like this when the press is controlled by the accuser? Second, even if the sentence is 'legally correct,' when does the threat of a human rights violation become too important to ignore - should countries be pressured to abolish death sentences (at least) for non-violent crimes? Even if th…

[@PG and the hacker news team: I think it's pretty important to see some indication of supporting votes on these comments. Please keep considering if you want to bring back that feature in some form. Thanks!]

Re: A death sentence for a young Chinese businesswoman chills entrepreneurs

#54

Post by aptsurdist »

cglee wrote: post #21
Ygor wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It raises a valid question: How to find reliable sources for stories such as this? Is it even possible, concerning the usual secrecy of similar processes?

Chinese forums, if you know where to look. But you have to learn to read Chinese, or find some one/way to translate.

Google translate is certainly a good start to help with this problem. Thanks google. http://translate.google.com/#zh-CN|en|http%3A%2F%2Fbaike.bai...

Re: A death sentence for a young Chinese businesswoman chills entrepreneurs

#55

Post by lisperforlife »

Please correct me if I am wrong. Basically she is dying because she defrauded a bunch of rich dudes and created employment opportunities. The rich dudes are pissed and so she is now facing a death sentence? This is pretty screwed.

Sending her to jail is one thing but death sentence. That is just idiotic.

Re: A death sentence for a young Chinese businesswoman chills entrepreneurs

#56

Post by billswift »

dublinclontarf wrote: post #35
cheez wrote: post #22

Hey guys, try and follow the laws of the country in which you live. Even if you think it's unjust, you can't change it if you're dead.

What if the laws make criminals of ordinary, innocent things. This is pretty much the case in China(and many countries actually) its impossible to live without commiting some kind of crime. Thats how they get you.

Three Felonies a Day: How the Feds Target the Innocent

http://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/...

Also read any of James Bovard's books; Lost Rights, Freedom in Chains, Feeling Your Pain, Terrorism and Tyranny, The Bush Betrayal, Attention Deficit Democracy, or Vin Suprynowicz books Send in the Waco Killers and Ballad of Carl Drega or his column on the Las Vegas Review-Journal, http://www.lvrj.com/columnists/Vin_Suprynowicz.html

Re: A death sentence for a young Chinese businesswoman chills entrepreneurs

#57

Post by Tycho »

cstross wrote: post #38
dublinclontarf wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but they're going to execute her.You get that? She going to die.

Playing devil's advocate here -- I'm totally opposed to the death penalty. However ... From the government's point of view, why should crimes of violence like murder or aggravated sexual assault warrant a harsh punishment, but economic crimes that affect vastly greater numbers of people receive more lenient treatment? Given that we can approximate a lifetime's productive labour to, say, $1M, a fraud involving multipl…

The problem of who decides what's good/bad for 'the state' immediately rears its ugly head. If the government can literally kill political enemies, the people are more likely to rebel. Like imagine if Russia actually executed that tycoon who funds the opposition (who they keep jailing for 'fraud'). At least the death penalty for murder is somewhat objective. Regardless, I think that type of judicial theory is a few methods short in the object factory to start with.

Re: A death sentence for a young Chinese businesswoman chills entrepreneurs

#58

Post by tzs »

varjag wrote: post #51
cstross wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Playing devil's advocate here -- I'm totally opposed to the death penalty. However ... From the government's point of view, why should crimes of violence like murder or aggravated sexual assault warrant a harsh punishment, but economic crimes that affect vastly greater numbers of people receive more lenient treatment? Given that we can approximate a lifetime's productive labour to, say, $1M, a fraud involving multipl…

Your point makes perfect sense if one is of opinion that human life can be pegged to monetary value at some exchange rate. And this is indeed the founding assumption at which many totalitarian regimes operate.

It is the assumption of every country and society, not just totalitarian ones. Every time we set food, safety, environmental, or medical rules we assume there is an exchange rate between life and money and make our regulations accordingly.

Re: A death sentence for a young Chinese businesswoman chills entrepreneurs

#59

Post by rbanffy »

cheez wrote: post #47
rbanffy wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law is only just if applied equally. I would have less problems if Chinese authorities prosecuted everyone involved in fraud. Discretionary application of the law is a worst-case-scenario.

But that's what you have even in Canada and the US if you get down to it. Discretionary = someone made noise about it.

Only the prosecution occurs regardless of who makes the noise, considering only the evidence there was reason for the noise.

Re: A death sentence for a young Chinese businesswoman chills entrepreneurs

#60

Post by brazzy »

varjag wrote: post #51
cstross wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Playing devil's advocate here -- I'm totally opposed to the death penalty. However ... From the government's point of view, why should crimes of violence like murder or aggravated sexual assault warrant a harsh punishment, but economic crimes that affect vastly greater numbers of people receive more lenient treatment? Given that we can approximate a lifetime's productive labour to, say, $1M, a fraud involving multipl…

Your point makes perfect sense if one is of opinion that human life can be pegged to monetary value at some exchange rate. And this is indeed the founding assumption at which many totalitarian regimes operate.

Your point makes perfect sense if one is of opinion that human life can be pegged to monetary value at some exchange rate.

If you hold any other opinion, you are fooling yourself. A lot of people will go to great length to deny it, but if you think about it unprejudiced, you'll have to accept it. There are just too many instances where spending amount X of money can save a life and people make the conscious decision not to do so because X is more than they can or want to afford. Usually they'll rationalize or otherwise hide this reason (or even the fact that they even made a decision), but it's there.

And this is indeed the founding assumption at which many totalitarian regimes operate.

How does this have anything to do with totalitarian regimes?

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