Trump’s WeChat curbs halted by judge on free speech concerns • Hacker News Board

Re: Trump’s WeChat curbs halted by judge on free speech concerns

#31

Post by api » Sun, Sep 20, 2020, 4:24 PM UTC

wombatmobile wrote: post #16

When trying to understand China's commercial policies which America is supposedly retaliating against, consider that China has experienced a different mercantile history to America. America has never been invaded by foreign gunships and forced to allow foreign merchants to import opium to addict its citizens in order to fix their own countries balance of payments problems. Opium Wars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opi…

The Opium Wars story is a cautionary tale that should apply equally to China and to the USA. Every country should think twice about excessively powerful foreign mercantile forces, especially digital ones in this era of mechanized propaganda and surveillance.

It’s rational for China to limit Apple and Google and for the USA to limit WeChat.

This will remain so as long as a basically lawless state exists internationally, which seems to be the case following the collapse of post Cold War globalism in the 20-teens.

Re: Trump’s WeChat curbs halted by judge on free speech concerns

#32

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Sep 20, 2020, 4:24 PM UTC

londons_explore wrote: post #25

Causality1 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are valid concerns. I also think the opposite side of that coin is worth considering. That is to say, should we allow WeChat to gain an even greater foothold on American soil or should we minimize total damage by cutting it off now instead of later? As for me, I believe allowing WeChat to become anything like the structural institution it is in China in any part of the US would be a mistake. Imagine if Google w…

For a long time, USPS was directly controlled by government, yet was also one of the only ways for people to communicate long distance. Government could easily have made laws like "we will read all your mail", or "we won't deliver mail to political enemies". Yet that didn't happen. Why are things turning out differently in the internet age?

[deleted]

Re: Trump’s WeChat curbs halted by judge on free speech concerns

#33

Post by conception » Sun, Sep 20, 2020, 4:26 PM UTC

12xo wrote: post #26

By far the most egregious overreach of Federal authority in recent memory. Noting about this is reasonable. Its 100% the act of a desperate and weak minded despot who knows nothing about technology but acts out of ignorance and pettiness. A truly illegal and Anti-American act.

If you view this from the perspective of https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics - it’s perfectly rational. Creating tensions between China and the US is a tremendous win for Russia.

Re: Trump’s WeChat curbs halted by judge on free speech concerns

#34

Post by justsomedood » Sun, Sep 20, 2020, 4:27 PM UTC

londons_explore wrote: post #25

Causality1 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are valid concerns. I also think the opposite side of that coin is worth considering. That is to say, should we allow WeChat to gain an even greater foothold on American soil or should we minimize total damage by cutting it off now instead of later? As for me, I believe allowing WeChat to become anything like the structural institution it is in China in any part of the US would be a mistake. Imagine if Google w…

For a long time, USPS was directly controlled by government, yet was also one of the only ways for people to communicate long distance. Government could easily have made laws like "we will read all your mail", or "we won't deliver mail to political enemies". Yet that didn't happen. Why are things turning out differently in the internet age?

A counterpoint is that the telephone infrastructure has been tapped by the US government to monitor even citizens conversations. My opinion is that since it requires fewer people it is easier to do. I don't think the CCP is as concerned with chinese citizens knowing what they are doing like the US seems to

Re: Trump’s WeChat curbs halted by judge on free speech concerns

#35

Post by mrits » Sun, Sep 20, 2020, 4:27 PM UTC

12xo wrote: post #26

By far the most egregious overreach of Federal authority in recent memory. Noting about this is reasonable. Its 100% the act of a desperate and weak minded despot who knows nothing about technology but acts out of ignorance and pettiness. A truly illegal and Anti-American act.

I get what you are saying but I wouldn't refer to the judge as a despot

Re: Trump’s WeChat curbs halted by judge on free speech concerns

#36

Post by valuearb » Sun, Sep 20, 2020, 4:29 PM UTC

ed25519FUUU wrote: post #24

dvduval wrote: post #10

I have been studying Chinese for 7 years. Many of my Chinese friends live in Los Angeles and WeChat is central in their life... Getting a job, taking orders, doing all kinds of business, paying for things. They don't know the phone numbers of their friends. Many don't speak English or their English is not very good. If it is completely cut off they will still find ways to communicate but arguably it will be more like…

Their usage of wechat is more likely a liability than a benefit. It gives a foreign adversary visibility into their activities in US. How can they become activist or work for change if their government is monitoring everything they say? Do the Hong Kong protest crackdown not scare anyone else? Now they have an excuse. It won’t look suspicious if they communicate to each other on channels that can’t be monitored by th…

Your arguments is the NSA should monitor them, just as it does us?

Re: Trump’s WeChat curbs halted by judge on free speech concerns

#37

Post by booleandilemma » Sun, Sep 20, 2020, 4:29 PM UTC

threatofrain wrote: post #5

IMO the forced sale of TikTok is very worrying for American production in China; in any future escalation China will likely use that same move as a card to play.

Are you aware of the services China is already blocking?

Here’s a list: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_blocked_in_...

Re: Trump’s WeChat curbs halted by judge on free speech concerns

#38

Post by gruez » Sun, Sep 20, 2020, 4:29 PM UTC

wyxuan wrote: post #8

Good. I didn't think the WeChat ban made much sense to begin with. Sidenote, I've noticed more and more people joining Telegram to evade a potential WeChat ban. I wonder if they're going to stay on Telegram.

>Sidenote, I've noticed more and more people joining Telegram to evade a potential WeChat ban. I wonder if they're going to stay on Telegram.

Isn't the whole point of using wechat is its large chinese userbase? AFAIK telegram is banned in china, so I'm not sure why that'd be the logical choice.

Re: Trump’s WeChat curbs halted by judge on free speech concerns

#39

Post by valuearb » Sun, Sep 20, 2020, 4:32 PM UTC

helen___keller wrote: post #2

A preliminary injunction makes perfect sense considering how immediate and widely impactful a ban on WeChat would be to the Chinese-American community. The onus is on the Trump administration to show that the immediate national security risk of letting WeChat continue to operate during legal proceedings exceeds the impact on Chinese Americans. Clearly there was no proof to make this case, because this was hardly abou…

Don’t know why you are being downvoted, this is the most accurate summation of the ban I’ve read yet.

Re: Trump’s WeChat curbs halted by judge on free speech concerns

#40

Post by londons_explore » Sun, Sep 20, 2020, 4:34 PM UTC

justsomedood wrote: post #34

londons_explore wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a long time, USPS was directly controlled by government, yet was also one of the only ways for people to communicate long distance. Government could easily have made laws like "we will read all your mail", or "we won't deliver mail to political enemies". Yet that didn't happen. Why are things turning out differently in the internet age?

A counterpoint is that the telephone infrastructure has been tapped by the US government to monitor even citizens conversations. My opinion is that since it requires fewer people it is easier to do. I don't think the CCP is as concerned with chinese citizens knowing what they are doing like the US seems to

> I don't think the CCP is as concerned with chinese citizens knowing what they are doing

If you ask a random Chinese citizen "are you okay with the government listening in to your phone calls?", most people would say Yes. Having the government listen in and having government presence on the streets makes us feel safe, because most of us trust our government. Sure, it has it's issues, but in general, the government acts in our favor, and without it we'd have far lower standards of living.

The US is a total polar opposite in this regard.