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Survivor of CIA Torture and Rendition Supports Assange at Extradition Trial

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Re: Survivor of CIA Torture and Rendition Supports Assange at Extradition Trial

#181

Post by Nasrudith »

Fnoord wrote: post #66
mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #40

A lot of comments are (rightfully) condemning American atrocity, but let’s not lose sight that it is defense for Assange as well. His actions clearly came with the moral imperative of whistleblowing - even just this one example shows the humanitarian crimes that would go unrevealed if the leaked documents weren’t published. There’s just no way to pretend like Assange caused harm or violated law - whistleblowing is no…

The problem I have with him is that his massive leaks were politically motivated. The helicopter who shot journalists, that movie was genuine, and a proper leak. All the diplomatic cables being leaked? Clinton's e-mails? I don't believe all of that was in the public interest. He fell in the trap of making it political, us vs them (why he went in bed with the Russians), and disregarding operational safety.

I fail to see how being political is a relevant distinction, it fundamentally just means that something is contested. Not necessarily that there is any good reason for it to be contested. Utterly horrific things can be accepted and 'not political' and the only sane approach contested and declared 'political'.

Re: Survivor of CIA Torture and Rendition Supports Assange at Extradition Trial

#182

Post by stjohnswarts »

arcticbull wrote: post #82
CraigJPerry wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the USA have a left today? The right who voted for the new deal are left of today’s left. Today’s left are more right than yesterday’s right.

Yep, the two major parties are "center-right" and "far-right" politically. There are some leftists but they aren't represented, and because of the two-party system they won't be. Two parties ~= one party.

AOC and her squad are very far left and they're mainstream.

Re: Survivor of CIA Torture and Rendition Supports Assange at Extradition Trial

#183

Post by stjohnswarts »

slim wrote: post #3
atonse wrote: post #2

After reading the NSA article about getting ISIS in very subtle ways that makes it seem like technical glitches, does anyone believe that there were actual “technical glitches” preventing this guy from testifying on video about his CIA torture?

yes, I believe there's a team funded using millions of US taxpayer money working on sabotaging Assanges defense in every possible way including illegal and immoral ways like hacking, bribing, black mailing, etc..

Do you have proof of that? If so you should definitely send it to NYT, WaPo, etc.

Re: Survivor of CIA Torture and Rendition Supports Assange at Extradition Trial

#184

Post by ifmpx »

Sargos wrote: post #84
lionkor wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with what you said, yet can't help but think that everyone who knows about this kind of thing and still doesn't think twice about which party to vote for, is responsible in some way. Every american is given a voice, to vote for the best party, the best candidate, based on what they know and believe. Voting is anonymous. You dont have to tell anyone what you voted for. Vote for a third party, or for whatever y…

Both parties support this. Citizens don't really have a say in how most of the government works.

If citizens don't have a say, then that's not a democracy.

Re: Survivor of CIA Torture and Rendition Supports Assange at Extradition Trial

#185

Post by plandis »

arcticbull wrote: post #83
squarefoot wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is not the US people in any case, is their government. This a million times. I'm speaking broadly as I'm not from the US, however this applies pretty much to every country: "People are not their government" should be always considered when criticizing any nation or being criticized by others because of government politics. Identifying people with their government choices is the 1st step towards building hatred that…

> This a million times. I'm speaking broadly as I'm not from the US, however this applies pretty much to every country: "People are not their government" should be always considered when criticizing any nation or being criticized by others because of government politics. Disagreed completely. In a democracy, people are responsible for their governments. That's the whole idea of democracy. If you can pick your leaders…

> In a democracy, people are responsible for their governments.

Last time I checked I don’t get to vote for policies directly. Last time I checked I didn’t get to vote for every representative position and in some cases people won those elections but didn’t even get a plurality of the votes.

Why exactly am I responsible for something I cannot control?

Re: Survivor of CIA Torture and Rendition Supports Assange at Extradition Trial

#186

Post by ifmpx »

x86_64Ubuntu wrote: post #173
mantap wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The former is distraction for the others. The left in USA has been convinced (or convinced itself) that identity politics is more important than human rights.

What does identity politics have to do with human rights, and why does one preclude the other? Your statement makes it out to seem that you simply don't like what you consider "identity politics" and wanted to bring that into the discussion, regardless of how irrelevant it is.

You're being uncharitable in your reading.

GP is rightfully pointing out that political discourse is far often centered on identity politics to the exclusion of more important topics such as human rights.

No one is saying that one precludes the other except you.

Re: Survivor of CIA Torture and Rendition Supports Assange at Extradition Trial

#187

Post by dang »

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #112
fit2rule wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Genocide is not happening. You won’t be taken seriously if you make such claims.

It looks like you've been using HN primarily (if not exclusively) for political battle. That's against the site guidelines and we ban accounts that do it, because it moves this place in exactly the opposite direction we want it to go. HN is supposed to be for curious conversation. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and use the site as intended, we'd appreciate it.

If you want more explanation about how we moderate this, see https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...

and https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...

Re: Survivor of CIA Torture and Rendition Supports Assange at Extradition Trial

#188

Post by dang »

fit2rule wrote: post #88
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was explaining the issue to the commenter, since they seemed to be expressing honest confusion about why their comment comes across as incendiary. I certainly agree it's better to avoid engaging with inflammatory rhetoric, but we shouldn't let that become a refusal to help people moderate their tone when they don't mean to give offense.

[flagged]

We've had to ask you more than once before to stop doing this sort of flamewar on HN. If you keep doing it, we're going to have to ban you. I'm not going to ban you right now because you posted about octopuses and mopeds recently. But it's not acceptable to flame up the threads like this, regardless of how right you are or feel you are.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Survivor of CIA Torture and Rendition Supports Assange at Extradition Trial

#189

Post by dang »

fit2rule wrote: post #12

Its also preposterous that Americans will continue to justify these heinous acts as "might makes right", and then go on with their day, ignoring their states immense crimes against humanity in their effort to 'get theirs'... but yeah, drop the ol' "Ma' Russians!" into the conversations, and heads explode. There is literally no difference between the chemical castration of Assange inside a prison, and what "th' Russia…

The flamewar that you started and perpetuated in this thread is not ok on HN, regardless of how right you are, or feel you are, on the underlying issues. You've done this many times on HN before and we've asked you repeatedly to stop. If you keep doing it, we're going to end up banning you. More here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24531609.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24526092.

Re: Survivor of CIA Torture and Rendition Supports Assange at Extradition Trial

#190

Post by jariel »

ftfp wrote: post #127
jariel wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proportionality is relevant in this, but I won't bother to respond to your fiction regarding historical events. You might want to ask the mass murdering regimes of those regions, many of whom continue to operate today, about those issues.

You've got your head in the sand. Do remember to wash the all the blood of those stars and stripes once you've finished waving them about.

I'm not American, I'm not even 'Pro American'.

That anyone would assume that only highlights their own myopia and relevant triggers.

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