Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Survivor of CIA Torture and Rendition Supports Assange at Extradition Trial

dissenter.substack.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 234 posts

Re: Survivor of CIA Torture and Rendition Supports Assange at Extradition Trial

#71

Post by justanotheranon »

slim wrote: post #3
atonse wrote: post #2

After reading the NSA article about getting ISIS in very subtle ways that makes it seem like technical glitches, does anyone believe that there were actual “technical glitches” preventing this guy from testifying on video about his CIA torture?

yes, I believe there's a team funded using millions of US taxpayer money working on sabotaging Assanges defense in every possible way including illegal and immoral ways like hacking, bribing, black mailing, etc..

i believe so too. CIA has every witness to Assange's trial under surveillance and JTRIG are actively targetting them for harassment. anything to sabotage the defense.

i hope the fact of that leaks onto Wikileaks. then Assange walks for the same reason Ellsberg walked. FBI used illegal tactics to persecute Ellsberg before his trial, which the govt was too embarassed about revealing to continue his prosecution.

Re: Survivor of CIA Torture and Rendition Supports Assange at Extradition Trial

#72

Post by jessaustin »

sudosysgen wrote: post #61
squarefoot wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is not the US people in any case, is their government. This a million times. I'm speaking broadly as I'm not from the US, however this applies pretty much to every country: "People are not their government" should be always considered when criticizing any nation or being criticized by others because of government politics. Identifying people with their government choices is the 1st step towards building hatred that…

Well, you still get a dissonance, right? Either the US is a democracy, and the People are responsible, or it isn't, in which case the People are deluding themselves.

Both things could be true, but if you want to pick one possibility that is more true... have you ever spoken to an American? Of course we are deluding ourselves.

Re: Survivor of CIA Torture and Rendition Supports Assange at Extradition Trial

#73

Post by jessaustin »

sudosysgen wrote: post #62
malux85 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if we can manipulate trump into freeing Assange and Snowden under the narrative “These heros exposed Obama’s crimes, you can be the hero who frees them” (I know they are not “Obama’s” crimes but that’s the only way to get trump engaged, or maybe just “democrats” crimes) I think he would run with it if only it didn’t set president for whistleblowers to blow the whistle on whatever he has done...I dont think h…

That's what Glenn Greenwald tried to do on Tucker Carlson's show around a week ago, to the letter.

Somehow, many public figures misunderstood his intentions.

Re: Survivor of CIA Torture and Rendition Supports Assange at Extradition Trial

#74

Post by pftf »

leephillips wrote: post #42
EthanHeilman wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The left in USA has been convinced (or convinced itself) that identity politics is more important than human rights. I disagree. I think we had torture so that a President could look tough on National Security as a re-election strategy. Not-torturing people and "identity politics" are not mutually exclusive, there is no reason that we couldn't have both. "Identity politics" is fundamentally about human liberty and t…

In practice, human rights do take a back seat to identity politics. One of the most widespread forms of torture in the world, female genital mutilation, is out of bounds even for criticism, in the eyes of the typical person of the “left” in the U.S., and many Western European countries, today. Those who object to this barbarism, inflicted upon millions of girls every year, are actually, somehow, called “racists” for…

> the “left”

Makes sense that you put this in quote marks, given that you're just inventing wild caricatures to argue against.

Re: Survivor of CIA Torture and Rendition Supports Assange at Extradition Trial

#75

Post by sandworm101 »

yodsanklai wrote: post #30
doublesCs wrote: post #26

> The European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) confirmed nine years after that El Masri was “severely beaten, sodomized, shackled, and hooded, and subjected total sensory deprivation—carried out in the presence of state officials of Macedonia and within its jurisdiction.” > Macedonia’s “government was consequently responsible for those acts performed by foreign officials…Those measures had been used with premeditation,…

I totally agree. First, many Americans don't support these acts, it's just beyond their control. And others do support them but either minimize them or believe they are justified for a greater good. And a lot are totally clueless and just have no idea of what's going on. There's a lot of propaganda, poor education and lack of information in the US. Just watch a presidential debate, it's a joke.

Thats the problem with democracy: the people own the mistakes of those they elect. Dont like what they do? Vote them out of office. Arrest them. Jail them. If the system fails, fix the system.

Re: Survivor of CIA Torture and Rendition Supports Assange at Extradition Trial

#76

Post by pftf »

RobertoG wrote: post #23
dsign wrote: post #22

Let's see what the British court does; I just hope they don't bring more shame to the country.

I don't know the particulars of this case or the UK, so, maybe I'm wrong, but this is probably already decided. The way this kind of thing is done is by managing that the case goes to the "proper" judge.

From what I've seen so far, this is just a show trial for them to go through the motions.

Assange is going to be extradited to the US and there's nothing anyone can do about it, short of breaking him out of his imprisonment.

Re: Survivor of CIA Torture and Rendition Supports Assange at Extradition Trial

#77

Post by arcticbull »

lionkor wrote: post #65
yodsanklai wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally agree. First, many Americans don't support these acts, it's just beyond their control. And others do support them but either minimize them or believe they are justified for a greater good. And a lot are totally clueless and just have no idea of what's going on. There's a lot of propaganda, poor education and lack of information in the US. Just watch a presidential debate, it's a joke.

I agree with what you said, yet can't help but think that everyone who knows about this kind of thing and still doesn't think twice about which party to vote for, is responsible in some way. Every american is given a voice, to vote for the best party, the best candidate, based on what they know and believe. Voting is anonymous. You dont have to tell anyone what you voted for. Vote for a third party, or for whatever y…

John Adams and George Washington believed a two-party state was a major threat to democracy, and it's pretty easy to see why.

The reality is Democrats and Republicans are about 6 inches apart on every single major issue. Compare the platforms of the "left" and "right" here to other major democracies worldwide, and you'll see.

Things are a little different with the current administration, but even that, the concrete policy and substance issues aren't all that far apart.

- Neither side supports socialized medicine.

- Neither side supports free or cheap college or doing anything about student debt.

- Neither side supports decriminalization or legalization of narcotics.

- Neither side is interested in reducing defense spending.

- Neither side is interested in immigration reform (as evidenced by the Obama administration having, for a long time, controlled both houses and the presidency and changing literally nothing).

- Neither side is interested in reforming the intelligence services or closing GITMO -- remember that?

- Neither side is interested in prison reform or policing reform. Police in America kill 10X as many people per capita as Canadian police kill. The only leader to actually implement any form of prison reform in decades was Donald Trump, credit where due. And that's likely only because he's not really a Democrat or a Republican.

- Both sides persecuted and prosecuted Asange and Snowden.

Really, what are the major points of policy differentiation? A 2% tax hike on the wealthy?

Re: Survivor of CIA Torture and Rendition Supports Assange at Extradition Trial

#78

Post by Hnrobert42 »

curtis3389 wrote: post #56
Hnrobert42 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find conspiracy theories exciting and compelling, but intellectually hollow. They are like junk food. They can even be right sometimes, just as pizza can nourish you. But we are better off setting them aside and sticking with the mundane issues of electing sensible representatives, supporting investigative journalism, engaging in fact-based discourse.

I'm not convinced we are better off ignoring all conspiracy theories. There are real conspiracies to break the law in the world, and some of them have been perpetrated by the US government. We have to look at the merits of each theory and decide whether it's batshit or not. Global conspiracy to fake a pandemic? Doesn't seem possible. A couple dudes in the CIA harassing a dude they tortured and then threatened to mess…

You raise good points. Moderation in everything.

A conspiracy theory is just one possible explanation of events. There is nothing wrong with attempting validate it while also considering other possible explanations. The harm comes when a shadowy cabal is one’s answer to everything.

Re: Survivor of CIA Torture and Rendition Supports Assange at Extradition Trial

#79

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

pftf wrote: post #69
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem isn't your descriptions of the actions which Assange reported on. The problem is your use of phrases like "Ma' Russians" and your strange reference to a "chemical castration" of Assange.

You're just tone policing here. You should engage with the actual subject of the discussion, or say nothing at all. People aren't unemotional robots, and thus don't always conform to prejudices on what constitutes the 'correct' tone. It's more useful to criticize the substance of a persons words, not how they choose to express them.

I was explaining the issue to the commenter, since they seemed to be expressing honest confusion about why their comment comes across as incendiary. I certainly agree it's better to avoid engaging with inflammatory rhetoric, but we shouldn't let that become a refusal to help people moderate their tone when they don't mean to give offense.

Re: Survivor of CIA Torture and Rendition Supports Assange at Extradition Trial

#80

Post by pftf »

sandworm101 wrote: post #75
yodsanklai wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally agree. First, many Americans don't support these acts, it's just beyond their control. And others do support them but either minimize them or believe they are justified for a greater good. And a lot are totally clueless and just have no idea of what's going on. There's a lot of propaganda, poor education and lack of information in the US. Just watch a presidential debate, it's a joke.

Thats the problem with democracy: the people own the mistakes of those they elect. Dont like what they do? Vote them out of office. Arrest them. Jail them. If the system fails, fix the system.

Voting doesn't work for the most important issues, where human rights are being severely violated.

It took a civil war for the end of slavery to begin in the US.

It took decades of terrorism for the Irish to stop being as subjugated by the British in Northern Ireland.

And so on.

History indicates that what you really need in the US right now is some violent, direct action against those committing human rights atrocities. Voting isn't going to do shit.

Post reply on HN