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Survivor of CIA Torture and Rendition Supports Assange at Extradition Trial

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Re: Survivor of CIA Torture and Rendition Supports Assange at Extradition Trial

#51

Post by rtx »

licebmi__at__ wrote: post #43
rtx wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there anything that EU can do about this. It's biggest economy is still a vassal state. Till you depend on America for protection you will have to play by their rules. What I believe Americans are confused about European reluctance to protect themselves. We recently saw Chinese threatening politician from Checz republic. Other European nations still welcomed the group.

You might want to read about operation Gladio and the extent of activities. The pretense of defending Europe is apparently good enough to even run a secret military group, while also making sure no US unfriendly group takes power.

Thanks for the reference, absolutely wild. Though I have no doubt why US is doing it.

Re: Survivor of CIA Torture and Rendition Supports Assange at Extradition Trial

#52

Post by squarefoot »

pvaldes wrote: post #27
Yaggo wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s totally absurd that US can kidnap random people outside their country.

> It’s totally absurd that US can kidnap random people outside their country. kidnap... and assassinate. Is not the US people in any case, is their government. And some of those people seem to have severe and worrying sadistic undercurrents in their personality. As human beings, torturers are a real failure.

> Is not the US people in any case, is their government.

This a million times. I'm speaking broadly as I'm not from the US, however this applies pretty much to every country: "People are not their government" should be always considered when criticizing any nation or being criticized by others because of government politics. Identifying people with their government choices is the 1st step towards building hatred that will be used to convince weak minded citizen to enroll and invade that country. Most wars happened because governments screwed their own people convincing them there were enemies ready to kill them, where in fact there was nobody.

Re: Survivor of CIA Torture and Rendition Supports Assange at Extradition Trial

#53

Post by rbanffy »

yodsanklai wrote: post #28

What strikes me with the US is that they can be very progressive on some issues (e.g. lgbt rights), yet totally backward on others (torture, death penalty, mass incarceration and so on...).

The US is a very large and diverse place.

Re: Survivor of CIA Torture and Rendition Supports Assange at Extradition Trial

#54

Post by rbanffy »

squarefoot wrote: post #52
pvaldes wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s totally absurd that US can kidnap random people outside their country. kidnap... and assassinate. Is not the US people in any case, is their government. And some of those people seem to have severe and worrying sadistic undercurrents in their personality. As human beings, torturers are a real failure.

> Is not the US people in any case, is their government. This a million times. I'm speaking broadly as I'm not from the US, however this applies pretty much to every country: "People are not their government" should be always considered when criticizing any nation or being criticized by others because of government politics. Identifying people with their government choices is the 1st step towards building hatred that…

Still, tacit responsibility applies. They ignore and benefit from these acts.

Re: Survivor of CIA Torture and Rendition Supports Assange at Extradition Trial

#55

Post by fit2rule »

oarsinsync wrote: post #41
fit2rule wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>subjective incendiary rhetoric Its not rhetoric if you've had to dig your children out from under the rubble. I'm not surprised this is a scary subject, and that it is immensely important to the American public that it be kept hidden away beyond the state secrecy walls of privilege. The collateral damage video wasn't rhetoric, either. Again, innocent children being murdered for lies. Let us not forget Assange's mess…

Some of the things you’ve said are subjective, and incendiary. I’m neither agreeing nor disagreeing with you. I was simply trying to highlight a statement of fact from your post, and provide an example of this occurring.

What part of the Julian Assange, Wikileaks, and US' War Crimes isn't incendiary? This is not a subject for sensitive feelings.

It is extremely important that discourse not be repressed for the sake of political expediency ...

If there were more awareness of the horrors, Assange wouldn't have been so necessary. If we want to reign in the war-mongers, we must hold them accountable.

Always.

Re: Survivor of CIA Torture and Rendition Supports Assange at Extradition Trial

#56

Post by curtis3389 »

Hnrobert42 wrote: post #49
atonse wrote: post #2

After reading the NSA article about getting ISIS in very subtle ways that makes it seem like technical glitches, does anyone believe that there were actual “technical glitches” preventing this guy from testifying on video about his CIA torture?

I find conspiracy theories exciting and compelling, but intellectually hollow. They are like junk food. They can even be right sometimes, just as pizza can nourish you. But we are better off setting them aside and sticking with the mundane issues of electing sensible representatives, supporting investigative journalism, engaging in fact-based discourse.

I'm not convinced we are better off ignoring all conspiracy theories. There are real conspiracies to break the law in the world, and some of them have been perpetrated by the US government.

We have to look at the merits of each theory and decide whether it's batshit or not. Global conspiracy to fake a pandemic? Doesn't seem possible. A couple dudes in the CIA harassing a dude they tortured and then threatened to mess with if he talked? Not impossible.

The criminal acts the US government has been up to raise serious questions regarding what you suggest we do:

> electing sensible representatives

how can you do this when your own government harasses and intimidates people it doesn't like?

> supporting investigative journalism

how can there be investigative journalism if receiving information could turn out to be a felony if it's the wrong information?

> engaging in fact-based discourse

how can you do this when your own government is hiding relevant facts from you?

Re: Survivor of CIA Torture and Rendition Supports Assange at Extradition Trial

#57

Post by jowsie »

GOONIMMUNE wrote: post #45
leephillips wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In practice, human rights do take a back seat to identity politics. One of the most widespread forms of torture in the world, female genital mutilation, is out of bounds even for criticism, in the eyes of the typical person of the “left” in the U.S., and many Western European countries, today. Those who object to this barbarism, inflicted upon millions of girls every year, are actually, somehow, called “racists” for…

As a leftist myself, I can't recall ever talking to another leftist who supported female genital mutilation, or called someone a racist for criticizing it. I think you're talking out your butt

Just wanted to echo this. Have never seen anyone called racist for speaking out against female genital mutilation.

Re: Survivor of CIA Torture and Rendition Supports Assange at Extradition Trial

#58

Post by mantap »

EthanHeilman wrote: post #35
mantap wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The former is distraction for the others. The left in USA has been convinced (or convinced itself) that identity politics is more important than human rights.

>The left in USA has been convinced (or convinced itself) that identity politics is more important than human rights. I disagree. I think we had torture so that a President could look tough on National Security as a re-election strategy. Not-torturing people and "identity politics" are not mutually exclusive, there is no reason that we couldn't have both. "Identity politics" is fundamentally about human liberty and t…

I'm not saying it's bad to have both. It's bad to have identity politics without first having human rights. Human rights are the foundation on which to build an equal society. Attempting to achieve equality before a even a right to life is secured is perverse and cannot work.

Is it no wonder that the police in USA murder black people, when the state also does so?

Re: Survivor of CIA Torture and Rendition Supports Assange at Extradition Trial

#59

Post by chupasaurus »

AsyncAwait wrote: post #24
elmo2you wrote: post #16

> .. in the United States, it will likely be excluded as irrelevant because the Espionage Act does not allow a public interest defense. Remind me again, what made the USA any better than North Korea or any other off-the-rails criminal regime? If this statement about the Espionage Act is correct, then why is there even a discussion whether Assange will get a fair trial in the USA? It's plain as daylight that he never…

Exactly. A lot of people ask also why Snowden keeps "hiding" in Russia and doesn't come back to face the music. It's because he's not even allowed to use the public good defense per the Espionage Act. As for Assange, the poor man has already suffered enough, what the UN amounts to torture. This is despicable and anyone who is concerned about the Uyghurs, Rohingya etc. should voice a strong opposition to what is happe…

Snowden avoids the prosecution because even on a public trial he will get a life-long sentence since Espionage Act doesn't have an exemption for acting in the public interest.

Re: Survivor of CIA Torture and Rendition Supports Assange at Extradition Trial

#60

Post by sudosysgen »

mantap wrote: post #31
yodsanklai wrote: post #28

What strikes me with the US is that they can be very progressive on some issues (e.g. lgbt rights), yet totally backward on others (torture, death penalty, mass incarceration and so on...).

The former is distraction for the others. The left in USA has been convinced (or convinced itself) that identity politics is more important than human rights.

This is because there is almost no US left. What you call the left are liberals, and liberals have always been like this (See: Pete Seeger's song "Love Me I'm a Liberal".
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