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Survivor of CIA Torture and Rendition Supports Assange at Extradition Trial

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Re: Survivor of CIA Torture and Rendition Supports Assange at Extradition Trial

#41

Post by oarsinsync »

fit2rule wrote: post #32
oarsinsync wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m going to ignore all the subjective incendiary rhetoric and focus on this (slightly edited) line: > [Those] who uncover state crimes are the enemy of the state. This is an interesting point, considering Snowdon made public improper behaviour, which resulted in him fleeing the country, while (at least some of) the improper behaviour has been declared illegal behaviour by a court of law. Meanwhile Snowdon remains pe…

>subjective incendiary rhetoric Its not rhetoric if you've had to dig your children out from under the rubble. I'm not surprised this is a scary subject, and that it is immensely important to the American public that it be kept hidden away beyond the state secrecy walls of privilege. The collateral damage video wasn't rhetoric, either. Again, innocent children being murdered for lies. Let us not forget Assange's mess…

Some of the things you’ve said are subjective, and incendiary.

I’m neither agreeing nor disagreeing with you.

I was simply trying to highlight a statement of fact from your post, and provide an example of this occurring.

Re: Survivor of CIA Torture and Rendition Supports Assange at Extradition Trial

#42

Post by leephillips »

EthanHeilman wrote: post #35
mantap wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The former is distraction for the others. The left in USA has been convinced (or convinced itself) that identity politics is more important than human rights.

>The left in USA has been convinced (or convinced itself) that identity politics is more important than human rights. I disagree. I think we had torture so that a President could look tough on National Security as a re-election strategy. Not-torturing people and "identity politics" are not mutually exclusive, there is no reason that we couldn't have both. "Identity politics" is fundamentally about human liberty and t…

In practice, human rights do take a back seat to identity politics. One of the most widespread forms of torture in the world, female genital mutilation, is out of bounds even for criticism, in the eyes of the typical person of the “left” in the U.S., and many Western European countries, today. Those who object to this barbarism, inflicted upon millions of girls every year, are actually, somehow, called “racists” for doing so.

You can not consider the way in which the “left” regards Ayaan Hirsi Ali, and seriously think that this crowd considers human rights to be even of passing importance.

Re: Survivor of CIA Torture and Rendition Supports Assange at Extradition Trial

#43

Post by licebmi__at__ »

rtx wrote: post #38
doublesCs wrote: post #26

> The European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) confirmed nine years after that El Masri was “severely beaten, sodomized, shackled, and hooded, and subjected total sensory deprivation—carried out in the presence of state officials of Macedonia and within its jurisdiction.” > Macedonia’s “government was consequently responsible for those acts performed by foreign officials…Those measures had been used with premeditation,…

Is there anything that EU can do about this. It's biggest economy is still a vassal state. Till you depend on America for protection you will have to play by their rules. What I believe Americans are confused about European reluctance to protect themselves. We recently saw Chinese threatening politician from Checz republic. Other European nations still welcomed the group.

You might want to read about operation Gladio and the extent of activities. The pretense of defending Europe is apparently good enough to even run a secret military group, while also making sure no US unfriendly group takes power.

Re: Survivor of CIA Torture and Rendition Supports Assange at Extradition Trial

#45

Post by GOONIMMUNE »

leephillips wrote: post #42
EthanHeilman wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The left in USA has been convinced (or convinced itself) that identity politics is more important than human rights. I disagree. I think we had torture so that a President could look tough on National Security as a re-election strategy. Not-torturing people and "identity politics" are not mutually exclusive, there is no reason that we couldn't have both. "Identity politics" is fundamentally about human liberty and t…

In practice, human rights do take a back seat to identity politics. One of the most widespread forms of torture in the world, female genital mutilation, is out of bounds even for criticism, in the eyes of the typical person of the “left” in the U.S., and many Western European countries, today. Those who object to this barbarism, inflicted upon millions of girls every year, are actually, somehow, called “racists” for…

As a leftist myself, I can't recall ever talking to another leftist who supported female genital mutilation, or called someone a racist for criticizing it. I think you're talking out your butt

Re: Survivor of CIA Torture and Rendition Supports Assange at Extradition Trial

#46

Post by Pfhreak »

CraigJPerry wrote: post #33
mantap wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The former is distraction for the others. The left in USA has been convinced (or convinced itself) that identity politics is more important than human rights.

Does the USA have a left today? The right who voted for the new deal are left of today’s left. Today’s left are more right than yesterday’s right.

They do, but it isn't represented in either of their two parties. The Liberal party and the Far Right party both do their best to ignore the leftists.

That said, at the local and house level there is an increase in left candidates getting elected. We'll see where that goes.

Re: Survivor of CIA Torture and Rendition Supports Assange at Extradition Trial

#47

Post by Hnrobert42 »

yodsanklai wrote: post #28

What strikes me with the US is that they can be very progressive on some issues (e.g. lgbt rights), yet totally backward on others (torture, death penalty, mass incarceration and so on...).

The U.S. is not a monolith. Even I, as an individual, have contradictory traits. The U.S. is the outcome of vast government, corporate, and individual actions across a large, geographically dispersed population with enough money and power that when we make a mistake, everyone gets hurt.

Re: Survivor of CIA Torture and Rendition Supports Assange at Extradition Trial

#48

Post by jancsika »

leephillips wrote: post #42
EthanHeilman wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The left in USA has been convinced (or convinced itself) that identity politics is more important than human rights. I disagree. I think we had torture so that a President could look tough on National Security as a re-election strategy. Not-torturing people and "identity politics" are not mutually exclusive, there is no reason that we couldn't have both. "Identity politics" is fundamentally about human liberty and t…

In practice, human rights do take a back seat to identity politics. One of the most widespread forms of torture in the world, female genital mutilation, is out of bounds even for criticism, in the eyes of the typical person of the “left” in the U.S., and many Western European countries, today. Those who object to this barbarism, inflicted upon millions of girls every year, are actually, somehow, called “racists” for…

> Those who object to this barbarism, inflicted upon millions of girls every year, are actually, somehow, called “racists” for doing so.

I am vehemently opposed to female genital mutilation. Even with HN's overly large number of contrarians and trolls, I claim no one can write a convincing argument that my previous sentence is in any way racist.

Re: Survivor of CIA Torture and Rendition Supports Assange at Extradition Trial

#49

Post by Hnrobert42 »

atonse wrote: post #2

After reading the NSA article about getting ISIS in very subtle ways that makes it seem like technical glitches, does anyone believe that there were actual “technical glitches” preventing this guy from testifying on video about his CIA torture?

I find conspiracy theories exciting and compelling, but intellectually hollow. They are like junk food. They can even be right sometimes, just as pizza can nourish you.

But we are better off setting them aside and sticking with the mundane issues of electing sensible representatives, supporting investigative journalism, engaging in fact-based discourse.

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