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FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

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Re: FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

#251
post #195
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, as I have a number of Chuck E. Cheese tokens that appear to fit this description. Why don't we ever hear about FBI raids of kids' pizza / video game parlors?

I suspect that if the use of Chuck E. Cheese tokens as a medium of exchange were to become widespread in a given locale (one with the profile of Las Vegas) the Secret Service would take a similar interest. As it is, come on. Their budget is finite.

What about Ithica Hours? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ithaca_Hours

Re: FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

#252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about bitcoins? I thought you could convert those back to dollars.

Good question. Early on when I was trying to create a milli-cent currency for subscription buying of content from a website we wondered if we offered a refund for our digital cash tokens if we'd get in trouble for it. As it turned out the Digi-cash folks had all the patents and were being real dicks about licensing so we never got to test the question. I can absolutely predict that if you can buy several hundred thou…

"I can absolutely predict that if you can buy several hundred thousand dollars worth of bitcoins from person X, and then go to persons P, Q, R, ... Z and redeeem them back for cash, that the authorities will shut down that sort of thing quite quickly."

It's already been done:

http://i.imgur.com/PUMtG.jpg

That's 400k BTC (about $400k) being sent to a number of different accounts.

Re: FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good question. Early on when I was trying to create a milli-cent currency for subscription buying of content from a website we wondered if we offered a refund for our digital cash tokens if we'd get in trouble for it. As it turned out the Digi-cash folks had all the patents and were being real dicks about licensing so we never got to test the question. I can absolutely predict that if you can buy several hundred thou…

" I can absolutely predict that if you can buy several hundred thousand dollars worth of bitcoins from person X, and then go to persons P, Q, R, ... Z and redeeem them back for cash, that the authorities will shut down that sort of thing quite quickly. " It's already been done: http://i.imgur.com/PUMtG.jpg That's 400k BTC (about $400k) being sent to a number of different accounts.

Good luck cashing that out without crashing the market. Somebody pointed out, just a few days ago, that a $10k sell-off recently scrubbed 25% off BCN/USD. A 400,000BCN sell-off would almost certainly drop it to pennies.

Re: FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

#254

The hijacked DNS has not propagated everywhere yet. Mine are still working. If anyone has last minute business to do on these sites, such as cashing out before the FBI steals your money, add these to your hosts file: $ host pokerstars.com pokerstars.com has address 77.87.179.116 pokerstars.com mail is handled by 20 mx20.pokerstars.com. $ host absolutepoker.com absolutepoker.com has address 66.212.244.175 absolutepoke…

[deleted]

Re: FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

#256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you actually read the document, you would see that the document includes provisions for a court system under the very correct assumption that some people would read the document and come to different conclusions about just what the document means. Ever played a board game and had people disagreed on what the rules said. If you play games of any complexity, it happens all the time. Life is considerably more difficu…

if the Monopoly instructions read "if any questions arise, ask the Banker, his word is final", I would not play that game.

That's more or less what the rules for any Pen&Paper RPG and lots of different sports (e.g. soccer) say.

Re: FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

#257
post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" I can absolutely predict that if you can buy several hundred thousand dollars worth of bitcoins from person X, and then go to persons P, Q, R, ... Z and redeeem them back for cash, that the authorities will shut down that sort of thing quite quickly. " It's already been done: http://i.imgur.com/PUMtG.jpg That's 400k BTC (about $400k) being sent to a number of different accounts.

Good luck cashing that out without crashing the market. Somebody pointed out, just a few days ago, that a $10k sell-off recently scrubbed 25% off BCN/USD. A 400,000BCN sell-off would almost certainly drop it to pennies.

I suspect that anyone confident enough in the Bitcoin economy to invest that amount of money is not looking to cash out quickly. They may be gambling that Bitcoin becomes a commonly-used internet currency, in which case they stand to gain a lot of money in the long term.

edit: Ah, I see your point. You said "redeem back to cash". Yes, that probably wouldn't work in an economy only worth a few million :)

Re: FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

#258
If the press release is true, these guys are going away for a long time. They allegedly bribed the owner of a US bank with cash and allegedly purchased 30% of the bank in exchange for the bank allowing them to circumvent US money laundering and anti-gambling laws.

There's a lot of civil liberty discussion in this thread, but I think this is actually a fascinating story about the linkage points between the internet and the real world -- in the real world, these guys needed bank processing. To get it, they went way, way over the line, as did the Bank owner.

Re: FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the heck? That's exactly the same as what I said. Money is an object or record that serves as a medium of exchange.

Pardon? I believe that's a little revisionist, as you stated, and what I was specifically referring to is " Currency refers to physical money. " You then list all the ways in which other forms of currency aren't currency, which is the point I disagree with. While I agree that a credit card isn't necessarily mapped to a tangible dollar figure, and that yes, it does refer to a line of credit, I disagree that it isn't c…

You don't exchange your debit card during the transaction.

It's perfectly legal to map USD > token and exhange that token. It's legal to create a token that you will map back to cash. It's not ok to accept other peoples tokens that does not represent actual money that exists.

Travelers checks are an example of the first kind of token. Poker chips are an example of the second kind of token.

You can accept a Travelers check from someone else. But you can't operate a business that accepts Poker chip's from someone else.

Re: FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

#260
I'm happy to see this featured so highly in hacker news.

As a professional poker player, the biggest concern right now are players balances. I know players with 250k+ bankrolls that are extremely concerned about the status of their money online.

Right now it's entirely unclear the relative size of the seizures.

If anyone has any questions from someone in the midst of this, fire way. I'll be up all night.

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