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FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

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Re: FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

#201

Post by fuzzmeister »

mycroftiv wrote: post #12

This is a disaster. A very sad day for the internet. We are entering into pastor Niemoller territory here: first they came for the file-sharing websites, next they came for the online gambling websites, and I would guess that Bitcoin is probably next in line, and following that, Magic: the Gathering online and the MMORPGs.

Are you intentionally hyperbolizing, or do you honestly believe that the government will shut down MMORPGs? Further, I'd like to see some arguments to back up your assertion about Bitcoin. I disagree with domain seizures, but gambling sites do seem to be in violation of federal law, while Bitcoin seems to be in the clear, as it is simply a virtual good.

Re: FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

#202

Post by bmelton »

bdonlan wrote: post #149
nika wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/currency 1. something that is used as a medium of exchange; money. 2.general acceptance; prevalence; vogue. 3. a time or period during which something is widely accepted and circulated. 4. the fact or quality of being widely accepted and circulated from person to person. 5. circulation, as of coin. Currrency can refer to physical money. But it also refers to gift cards, visa car…

If you looked at the actual laws the liberty dollar is cited as allegedly violating - http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/514.html and http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/486.html - you'll find it's quite specific about what is a problem; the former law makes illegal attempts to fraudulently pass off your currency a official US currency, and the latter makes it illegal to mint _metallic coins_ for use as current mo…

I appreciate your response, and agree that there's a gray area, but I am now more seriously wondering where parking tokens fall into this mix. They're metallic coins that decidedly represent some value (to the lot owners and offices/buildings that issue them as 'validation' at least).

I can't imagine them being easily mistaken for real money, but I honestly can't see the Liberty Dollar as being mistaken either.

Re: FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

#203

Post by dhughes »

ericb wrote: post #85
eftpotrm wrote: post #50

While I'm not at all surprised to see this happening, I'm still astonished that the USA continues to try to stamp out gambling through legislation. I remember growing up being astonished at the number of references on USA TV shows to illegal gambling; I've never once come across it in the UK. I love cricket, but there's been a persistent series of match-fixing and spot-fixing allegations for years, almost exclusively…

The casino lobby would prefer that online gambling didn't exist. Therefore, since these online companies are not in the US and have no lobbyist money in play, they have no standing. Voter preference, individual rights, domain name sanctity, jurisdiction, shortsightedness with regard to keeping control of TLD's, futility of the fight, all have no bearing when uncontested lobby money wants something, and doubly so when…

Actually the company I (a minion stuck in the cogs) work for is a government run lottery that set up a division called Digital Interactive Gaming just to design and build online a gambling website.

Re: FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

#204

Post by tankenmate »

knowtheory wrote: post #45
dstein wrote: post #37

Has a bureau of the US federal government just claimed ultimate authority over the internet's domain name system? If this is the case, then obviously we have a very serious problem on our hands. This threatens the way the internet works at the infrastructure level. Clearly the US needs to be stripped of their root DNS server privileges.

This has been a criticism of ICANN since the very beginning of the internet. This has always been a serious problem, especially since ICANN was setup under the auspices of the Department of Commerce. And, i'd love to see your alternative proposal for who should run root DNS. Cause the US is nakedly political and partisan, but at least it's nakedly so. :\

I think you'll find that the internet is a few decades older than ICANN.

But in ICANN's defence most people who participate in ICANN (remember it is a self selecting body) aren't happy about all the seizures either. I'm sure the mailing lists are going "full tilt" (pun intended) as we type.

Re: FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

#205

Post by zach »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #177
nika wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no law prohibiting private currency. Disney Dollars: http://www.disneydollars.net/ BerkShares: http://www.businessweek.com/smallbiz/content/jul2007/sb20070... . Buy Local—With Town Currency Dollar alternatives, such as BerkShares in Massachusetts, are shoring up local economies by keeping money in the community Microsoft Points: http://www.xbox.com/en-US/Live/MicrosoftPoints Pittsboro Plenty: http://www.demo…

Nika, none of the issuers you mention will convert back into dollars. Its a one way street. Presumably they have set up agreements with people who will accept them an they have pre-negotiated a discount rate. Its like chucky cheese tokens, you can't turn them back into quarters so that you can play more video games.

Actually, now that you mention it...

According to recent California law, "a gift certificate with a cash value of less than ten dollars ($10) is redeemable in cash (not a new certificate or merchandise) for its cash value."

Disney dollars are generally available only in denominations of $10 or less, so they may actually be an incredibly-inconvenient cash equivalent in California.

Re: FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

#206

Post by SaintMax »

gst wrote: post #65
mycroftiv wrote: post #12

This is a disaster. A very sad day for the internet. We are entering into pastor Niemoller territory here: first they came for the file-sharing websites, next they came for the online gambling websites, and I would guess that Bitcoin is probably next in line, and following that, Magic: the Gathering online and the MMORPGs.

No. It's not a disaster. Just the end of the .com/.net/.org era. As soon as people realize that .com/.net/.org are not neutral, but under US jurisdication, they will move to other TLDs operated in countries with more liberal laws.

Indeed, extensions like .ME and .CO have a bright future, same for domain hacks (except for .US ones).

Re: FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

#207

Post by hristov »

nbpoole wrote: post #9

For those that are skeptical, check the nameservers: http://network-tools.com/default.asp?prog=dnsrec&host=po... http://network-tools.com/default.asp?prog=dnsrec&host=fu... http://network-tools.com/default.asp?prog=dnsrec&host=ub... All of the domains point to nameservers at cirfu.net, which appears to be the FBI's Cyber Initiative and Resource Fusion Unit ( http://itlaw.wikia.com/wiki/Cyber_Initiative_and_Resource_F…

The top level domain registrar for .com is in the US, so the US has jurisdiction over it regardless of which retail registrars you use.

Re: FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

#208

Post by jamii »

fuzzmeister wrote: post #201
mycroftiv wrote: post #12

This is a disaster. A very sad day for the internet. We are entering into pastor Niemoller territory here: first they came for the file-sharing websites, next they came for the online gambling websites, and I would guess that Bitcoin is probably next in line, and following that, Magic: the Gathering online and the MMORPGs.

Are you intentionally hyperbolizing, or do you honestly believe that the government will shut down MMORPGs? Further, I'd like to see some arguments to back up your assertion about Bitcoin. I disagree with domain seizures, but gambling sites do seem to be in violation of federal law, while Bitcoin seems to be in the clear, as it is simply a virtual good.

In South Korea under-19s can't sign up for an MMORPG without their parents consent. There was also talk about imposing time limits and shutting down MMO servers during school hours but I haven't heard since I left whether this went into effect.

http://kotaku.com/#!5515459/south-korea-to-impose-overnight-...

Re: FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

#209

Post by bmelton »

cynicalkane wrote: post #198
bmelton wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe it is you who is wrong. Wikipedia's first sentence on 'currency' is this: In economics, currency refers to physical objects generally accepted as a medium of exchange. I don't claim to have the requisite knowledge on the argument at hand, so I won't speak to that, but it appears that the assertions you're arguing as fact are incorrect.

What the heck? That's exactly the same as what I said. Money is an object or record that serves as a medium of exchange.

Pardon? I believe that's a little revisionist, as you stated, and what I was specifically referring to is "Currency refers to physical money."

You then list all the ways in which other forms of currency aren't currency, which is the point I disagree with. While I agree that a credit card isn't necessarily mapped to a tangible dollar figure, and that yes, it does refer to a line of credit, I disagree that it isn't considered currency on those grounds. Does a debit card more appropriately fit your definition, or is it disqualified because the actual dollars are elsewhere?

Regardless, I think all the relevant points have been made, and further quibbling on the point isn't likely to benefit anybody in particular, so I'll bow out.

Re: FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

#210

Post by thaumaturgy »

cynicalkane wrote: post #183
nika wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/currency 1. something that is used as a medium of exchange; money. 2.general acceptance; prevalence; vogue. 3. a time or period during which something is widely accepted and circulated. 4. the fact or quality of being widely accepted and circulated from person to person. 5. circulation, as of coin. Currrency can refer to physical money. But it also refers to gift cards, visa car…

Please don't cite dictionary definitions. A dictionary will give you every possible meaning of the word, in any context. In the context of economics and law, currency is physical money. I think you are more interested in winning the argument than being correct.

OK, knock it off. This is exactly the kind of comment that's been leading to HN's oldest of oldtimers to conclude that there's been a decline in civility here.

edit: looks like he edited his comment while I was replying; his comment originally ended with, "I hoped your ilk would never find currency on this site, but I guess the day was going to come.", and was that way for at least 30 minutes before I replied.

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