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FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

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Re: FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

#241

Post by pbhjpbhj »

olalonde wrote: post #184

Isn't their image with no alt tag ( http://pokerstars.com/banner7.jpg ) in violation with Section 508 Amendment to the Rehabilitation Act of 1973 ? [1] Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973 A Federal law requiring US government electronic and information technology (EIT) to meet accessibility requirements [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_508_of_the_Rehabilitati...

It is a pretty blatant and unnecessary violation of accessibility standards, a longdesc wouldn't exactly be hard to add at least.

Re: FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

#242

Post by syncontrol »

markbao wrote: post #51
nbpoole wrote: post #9

For those that are skeptical, check the nameservers: http://network-tools.com/default.asp?prog=dnsrec&host=po... http://network-tools.com/default.asp?prog=dnsrec&host=fu... http://network-tools.com/default.asp?prog=dnsrec&host=ub... All of the domains point to nameservers at cirfu.net, which appears to be the FBI's Cyber Initiative and Resource Fusion Unit ( http://itlaw.wikia.com/wiki/Cyber_Initiative_and_Resource_F…

What's more terrifying FTFY.

HN is not Reddit. Please don't post these.

Re: FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

#243

Post by Splines »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #143
colanderman wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't make any sense to me... is bartering illegal? Where does one draw the line between bartering with chips and paying with chips?

No bartering is not illegal. Neither is buying, selling, and trading collectible Barbies. What is considered to be illegal (and I'm not a lawyer so I can't say definitively if it is or isn't) is creating an instrument, which represents a value (possibly fixed), and engaging in commerce using the instruments in lieu of the actual thing. So trading a Malibu Barbie for a Space Barbie, or perhaps a Barbie Dream Home woul…

Planet Money had a segment about the rocks-as-currency island:.

Segment: http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/02/15/131934618/the-isla...

Entire podcast (also discusses the currency test, IIRC): http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/02/15/131963928/the-frid...

Very interesting.

Re: FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

#244

Post by BrandonM »

andrenotgiant wrote: post #82

Great Job FBI, really thorough crackdown. http://www.pokerstars.net/ http://www.pokerstars.jp/ http://www.pokerstars.de/

pokerstars.net only offers a play money client; it is not a gambling site by any stretch of the imagination. .jp and .de are not under US jurisdiction.

Re: FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

#245

Post by llimllib »

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #188

The hijacked DNS has not propagated everywhere yet. Mine are still working. If anyone has last minute business to do on these sites, such as cashing out before the FBI steals your money, add these to your hosts file: $ host pokerstars.com pokerstars.com has address 77.87.179.116 pokerstars.com mail is handled by 20 mx20.pokerstars.com. $ host absolutepoker.com absolutepoker.com has address 66.212.244.175 absolutepoke…

The FBI press release[1] says that they've shut down all the sites' bank accounts too, so you're unlikely to be able to pull your money out.

I selfishly hope they go after everybody with money on any of those sites, because it might generate more outrage than just the domain name seizures.

[1]: http://www.fbi.gov/newyork/press-releases/2011/manhattan-u.s...

Re: FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

#246

Post by cube13 »

bmelton wrote: post #202
bdonlan wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you looked at the actual laws the liberty dollar is cited as allegedly violating - http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/514.html and http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/486.html - you'll find it's quite specific about what is a problem; the former law makes illegal attempts to fraudulently pass off your currency a official US currency, and the latter makes it illegal to mint _metallic coins_ for use as current mo…

I appreciate your response, and agree that there's a gray area, but I am now more seriously wondering where parking tokens fall into this mix. They're metallic coins that decidedly represent some value (to the lot owners and offices/buildings that issue them as 'validation' at least). I can't imagine them being easily mistaken for real money, but I honestly can't see the Liberty Dollar as being mistaken either.

Parking tokens(or arcade tokens) shouldn't have any issues.

They aren't issued for general currency like coins are, they are used to redeem a specific service provided by the people issuing the tokens.

In that way, their redeemable value never changes. A parking token means that you will be able to park in a space for a certain amount of time, no matter how much they are work in terms of actual currency.

Re: FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

#247

Post by ChuckMcM »

zach wrote: post #205
ChuckMcM wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nika, none of the issuers you mention will convert back into dollars. Its a one way street. Presumably they have set up agreements with people who will accept them an they have pre-negotiated a discount rate. Its like chucky cheese tokens, you can't turn them back into quarters so that you can play more video games.

Actually, now that you mention it... According to recent California law, "a gift certificate with a cash value of less than ten dollars ($10) is redeemable in cash (not a new certificate or merchandise) for its cash value." Disney dollars are generally available only in denominations of $10 or less, so they may actually be an incredibly-inconvenient cash equivalent in California.

According to the 'reference site' [1]

"Disney Dollars DO NOT expire. The oldest bill from 1987 can still be used today. As they are worth real money. They also may be exchanged back for the U.S. Dollars or purchased using the same.

They may used to pay for anything that can be normally paid for with cash including the following locations: (only Disney locations)"

They are exactly like casino chips, which is to say that within the Disney properties they can be used equivalently to cash, and even converted back into cash.

Given the Las Vegas experience however, I suspect that people in and around Orlando or other Disney locations, who aren't associated with Disney, should not accept them in lieu of cash.

One of the parallels to remember, the Secret Service wasn't going after the casinos for their chips, they were going after people who accepted them as cash even though they had no business relationship with the casino.

[1] http://disneydollars.net/where_can_disney_dollars_be_used.ht...

Re: FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

#248

Post by blhack »

peterwwillis wrote: post #233
pavel_lishin wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laws can change. I think it's well time to start thinking about how to organize the internet so that it routes around governments even more easily.

Eh. You don't have to "route around" this currently, just use a DNS resolver outside of the country that re-introduces domains which get taken out by oppressive governments. Nobody wants to do this, though, as it would destroy the fabric of the internet as we know it or something. But a simpler method would just incur more government push back in an arms race around censorship. Do what the chinese [citizens] do: go c…

This is actually an interesting idea to me. Forgive me for not being very knowledgeable about the DNS, so if somebody could correct me, I would appreciate it.

What happens if people start selectively paying attention to the ICANN root servers? For instance, my computer is set to use google's DNS. What happens if the DNS admins at google decide that they're going to just ignore the update from ICANN?

And what happens if there is a second-tier DNS that crops up specifically to thwart attempts at messing around with the records? (Honestly, domains being 'seized' should be treated like faulty equipment. If a drive starts bailing out, you replace it. To me, it sounds like the US gov't's ability to modify the DNS at their will is a click-of-death on the DNS)

Re: FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

#249

Post by weavejester »

cookiecaper wrote: post #80
mycroftiv wrote: post #12

This is a disaster. A very sad day for the internet. We are entering into pastor Niemoller territory here: first they came for the file-sharing websites, next they came for the online gambling websites, and I would guess that Bitcoin is probably next in line, and following that, Magic: the Gathering online and the MMORPGs.

Bitcoin is in for it as soon as it gains any reasonable traction. The government is not going to be happy about that at all. Fortunately, btc is a peer-to-peer network and should theoretically be hard to shut down. I doubt it's actually hard to shut down since the client gets its list of peers from the user list in an automatically and transparently joined IRC channel (if I understand correctly). Heh. I think, howeve…

If the Bitcoin client cannot connect to the IRC channel, it uses an in-built list of initial nodes to connect to the P2P network. Shutting down the IRC channel via a court order wouldn't shut down the Bitcoin network.

You could harvest IP addresses from the IRC channel, but you could also do that by running the client and noting down which peers you connect to. Unless you're running behind Tor or I2P, it's not hard to figure out which IP addresses have connected.

However, assuming the government had this list, what would it do? It's hard to bring charges against a large number of individuals scattered throughout different jurisdictions, and historically, the US government hasn't gone after the people using alternative currencies; they'd go after the source.

They could shut down the Bitcoin site - which would be quickly moved to an international domain. They could try and prosecute the lead programmers of the Bitcoin software, but this would not be particularly successful. It wouldn't stop Bitcoin, and I think it would be hard for them to show the currency as being illegal without, for instance, affecting MMO currencies as well.

I figure their best move would be to shut down the currency exchanges, or at least tie them up in court long enough to damage confidence in the Bitcoin economy. However, if the exchanges win, then Bitcoin has an official seal of legality, and a huge heaping of press attention.

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