FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names • Hacker News Board

Re: FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

#121

Post by ryanc » Fri, Apr 15, 2011, 6:58 PM UTC

nika wrote: post #41

jackowayed wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is a federal law that makes it a felony to violate constitutional rights under color of law. Never heard of that. Link?

Here it is: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00000242----... USC 18-242 I called it a felony though the law only makes it one if a "dangerous weapon" is involved.

This law refers to race discrimination and isn't relevant to your argument.

Key part with lots of sub clauses removed for readability: "Whoever, under color of any law, willfully subjects any person in any State to the deprivation of any rights, on account of such person being an alien, or by reason of his color, or race, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both;"

Re: FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

#122

Post by jbooth » Fri, Apr 15, 2011, 6:59 PM UTC

nika wrote: post #48

jonknee wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I find this ridiculous, it's quite different from the Liberty Dollar case which you mentioned losing $20 in. In the US it is clearly illegal to begin running your own currency and has been for a long time. The fact that NotHaus went as far as putting the word Dollar on it was just the icing on the cake.

Visa is a currency. So are travellers checks and regular old checking checks and coupons. All of these are also denominated in dollars. If you were to take some time and study the actual laws, and also check out the legal opinions, from members of boards of federal reserve branches, as well as the secret service and lawyers that were obtained before the Liberty Dollar project was started you'd recognize just how absu…

No, they are not currencies, they are payment methods for dollars. A note that you owe someone some amount of dollars is entirely different from saying, repeatedly, in advertisements, that you're an "alternative currency".

Re: FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

#123

Post by jneal » Fri, Apr 15, 2011, 6:59 PM UTC

Wow, I don't know why this surprises me so much - although I know plenty of people that play poker "illegally". A quote simply because I personally feel it's ridiculous.

I also recall the difference between the poker related .com and .net sites. So fulltiltpoker.net is still up as is pokerstars.net - that, if I recall correctly, was because the .net website was aimed a playing poker with "fake money" while the .coms were all aimed at playing poker with "real money"

Re: FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

#124

Post by pavel_lishin » Fri, Apr 15, 2011, 6:59 PM UTC

gst wrote: post #65

mycroftiv wrote: post #12

This is a disaster. A very sad day for the internet. We are entering into pastor Niemoller territory here: first they came for the file-sharing websites, next they came for the online gambling websites, and I would guess that Bitcoin is probably next in line, and following that, Magic: the Gathering online and the MMORPGs.

No. It's not a disaster. Just the end of the .com/.net/.org era. As soon as people realize that .com/.net/.org are not neutral, but under US jurisdication, they will move to other TLDs operated in countries with more liberal laws.

Laws can change. I think it's well time to start thinking about how to organize the internet so that it routes around governments even more easily.

Re: FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

#125

Post by colanderman » Fri, Apr 15, 2011, 6:59 PM UTC

ChuckMcM wrote: post #102

nika wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Visa is a currency. So are travellers checks and regular old checking checks and coupons. All of these are also denominated in dollars. If you were to take some time and study the actual laws, and also check out the legal opinions, from members of boards of federal reserve branches, as well as the secret service and lawyers that were obtained before the Liberty Dollar project was started you'd recognize just how absu…

I lived in Las Vegas in the 70's when the Secret Service stepped in and shut down the process of people paying for things with Casino Chips. For those not familiar with them, a Casino Chip has a current denomination ($1, $5, $25, etc) and the name of the Casino on it. For a long time Casinos, as service to their customers, didn't care if you played with another Casino's chips so you could just carry them around from…

This doesn't make any sense to me... is bartering illegal? Where does one draw the line between bartering with chips and paying with chips?

Re: FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

#126

Post by bmelton » Fri, Apr 15, 2011, 7:01 PM UTC

knowtheory wrote: post #39

seiji wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Beautiful: WARNING I'm surprised they don't have text and audio for ADA compliance.

for a site the don't want anyone to see? ;) But perhaps you're right and the FBI can be sued for non-compliance.

If they really didn't want anyone to see it, they would likely have just replaced it with a blank page.

The banner image that's there is meant to send a warning. It would have taken considerably less effort for them to put a blank message, or serve a 404 page than what I'm sure involved a committee of at least 4 people and 2 ranking executives to craft, create, get approval for, and implement the banner image that is currently in place.

Re: FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

#127

Post by jbooth » Fri, Apr 15, 2011, 7:01 PM UTC

nika wrote: post #74

cynicalkane wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Visa is a currency. So are travellers checks and regular old checking checks and coupons If you were to take some time to study the laws--or high school economics--or the cardholder agreement you sign when you apply for a Visa card--you'd know this is incorrect. I bet you have "research" that tells you that credit cards are currency or something, contrary to very basic legal and economic interpretations of the word.…

My understanding of economics is sufficient that I understood we'd be having a housing bubble in 2001, and by 2007, I'd profited massively from it and gotten out, well before the crash of 2008. All of that came from my application of economic principles. I don't think I'm entitled to my own facts. But I have read the laws here, and I find your response to be devoid of any actual argument or citation of facts and full…

Having made money in the past through whatever means doesn't mean you know what you're talking about at all here.

Or, to requote the parents, "One of the signs you're dealing with a nut is that the knowledge he thinks he has allows him to accept or reject facts as he so chooses."

Re: FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

#128

Post by blocke » Fri, Apr 15, 2011, 7:02 PM UTC

napierzaza wrote: post #54

seiji wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Beautiful: WARNING I'm surprised they don't have text and audio for ADA compliance.

Yes, because if Richard Stallman was wget'ing his daily webpages, he would have a lot of trouble interpreting that site without going into xwindows.

"Yes, because if Richard Stallman was wget'ing his daily webpages, he would have a lot of trouble interpreting that site without going into xwindows."

Your indifference to the Blind is touching. But at least you got your off-topic troll in.

Re: FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

#129

Post by ChuckMcM » Fri, Apr 15, 2011, 7:04 PM UTC

nika wrote: post #112

ChuckMcM wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived in Las Vegas in the 70's when the Secret Service stepped in and shut down the process of people paying for things with Casino Chips. For those not familiar with them, a Casino Chip has a current denomination ($1, $5, $25, etc) and the name of the Casino on it. For a long time Casinos, as service to their customers, didn't care if you played with another Casino's chips so you could just carry them around from…

I won't attempt to argue that the Liberty Dollar wasn't a misguided enterprise. Even when the law is on your side, the fact that the government controls the courts assures that you'll never get a fair trial. You're misunderstanding the constitution and what the "right to create currency" means. There are many currencies in circulation, and there have been many state and even private currencies over the years. Even to…

"You're misunderstanding the constitution and what the 'right to create currency' means."

You may be correct, I have noticed a strong correlation however between how the government behaves with respect to alternative currencies and my understanding of the legalities of same. And while I also recognize that correlation is not causation, I find this sort of correlation useful in predicting whether or not my future actions would be viewed as "sanctioned" or "not sanctioned" by law enforcement authorities.

Re: FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

#130

Post by astrodust » Fri, Apr 15, 2011, 7:04 PM UTC

seiji wrote: post #10

redorb wrote: post #4

http://www.whatsmydns.net/#A/fulltiltpoker.com Shows the propagation is underway.

Beautiful: WARNING I'm surprised they don't have text and audio for ADA compliance.

Maybe the W3C can seize the page for non-compliance.