US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns • Hacker News Board

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#201

Post by golemiprague » Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 9:55 PM UTC

SoylentYellow wrote: post #173

hirundo wrote: post #17

Banning a speech app should trigger strict judicial scrutiny for first amendment infringement in the same way that banning a newspaper would: 1. Is it necessary to a "compelling state interest"? Maybe they are CCP surveillance apps, but that needs be shown in court, not merely asserted. 2. Is it "narrowly tailored" to achieving this compelling purpose? This seems narrowly tailored to two apps. 3. Does it use the "lea…

I am focusing on WeChat only with this comment. It is not narrowly tailored or least restrictive. Narrowly tailored means the law must be precisely written to minimize the 1st Amendment impact. In this case, this order prevents millions of Americans from using their primary (and oftentimes only) method to communicate with family in China. There is no practical alternative to WeChat as all other similar apps are banne…

That's exactly the point, it's a measure intended to cause pain so the Chinese will change their way and trade fairly. About time that somebody grow some balls and put the Chinese in their place. For too long they got a lot of leeway and while it made sense in the beginning to help them improve the life of their citizens, by now they are capable enough and should start trade fairly like any other country.

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#202

Post by kinkrtyavimoodh » Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 9:56 PM UTC

bambax wrote: post #143

Why does the rest of the world tolerate American bullying is beyond me. At least in Europe, we should ban every Facebook app immediately. This would have the added benefit of letting regional apps emerge.

In international diplomacy these days you either have to tolerate bullying or be the bully yourself, and often both. For instance, the EU bullies American tech companies through 'litigation'.

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#203

Post by kinkrtyavimoodh » Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 9:57 PM UTC

bmitc wrote: post #164

China bans WhatsApp. The U.S. bans WeChat. Great, no I have no official app besides good old text and phone to communicate with my fiancée who is still banned from reentering the U.S. despite still having a job here. The U.S. has simply become an authoritarian state of a different color. My fiancée is prevented from returning and we are prevented from using our primary communication method simply because the so-calle…

> because the so-called president wants to personally gain from these actions

I sympathize with your wife's predicament (I know people stuck in similar situations) but he is not the 'so-called' president. He is a duly elected leader of the American people. Perhaps this type of obnoxious attitude by us liberals towards half the country is what caused this mess to happen in the first place.

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#204

Post by 6DM » Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 9:58 PM UTC

wonnage wrote: post #37

6DM wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

General election interference, manipulating public perception by constantly suggesting pro-CCP propaganda, aggravating the general public to turn on each other, tracking vocal anti-CCP individuals and potentially targeting them while traveling abroad. That's a few off the top of my head.

How is Google/Twitter/Facebook any different? Lemme guess your answer: well, they're on our side because it's an American company, and we can control them! It's been 10+ years of these companies and no meaningful oversight has been exerted, at least not on behalf of users. Not after: 1. Self-admitted election interference https://www.vox.com/2017/4/28/15476142/facebook-report-trump... 2. Tracking and targeting indivi…

I don’t think we can control them, I do think we could ideally introduce sensible legislation and hopefully the bad actors would at least be incentivized to benefit their own country to some extent. Also, sorry if I somehow insulted your home country, was only trying to make the point of why Americans would want a Chinese company ran out of town.

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#205

Post by netsharc » Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 9:58 PM UTC

nrmitchi wrote: post #19

technoplato wrote: post #8

I’m genuinely curious what the perceived threat is here. Is it as simple as “China is going to read everyone’s stuff and use machine learning to figure out what the cool kids are doing and then brainwash them?”

My understanding is that there are quite a few perceived threats, but all of them apply to large US corporations as well. If you collect enough information on people, they can be manipulated to certain beliefs or actions. This is the same information that Facebook and Google use for advertising purposes, similar information to the Cambridge Analytica events, and the risk is China (or a nefarious actor with this infor…

Hmm, why just foreign governments? The last 3.5 years (if not more) the US government doesn't seem to have been acting in your or my best interests, unless you're of the "Koch brothers"-class elite.

Meanwhile it's not the government, but Instagram hides unfavorable "related hashtags" when you search for Trump-related hashtags, but doesn't do the same for Biden: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ryanmac/instagram-relat...

Viva la democracia! /s

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#206

Post by kinkrtyavimoodh » Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 9:58 PM UTC

peter303 wrote: post #88

Trump attacks a children's app because he is unable to do much against China otherwise. US apps from Facebook and Google collect far more personal data and use it more malevolently.

> US apps from Facebook and Google collect far more personal data and use it more malevolently.

Source? What 'malevolent' use has Google made of your data?

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#207

Post by 6DM » Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 9:59 PM UTC

matwood wrote: post #89

6DM wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

General election interference, manipulating public perception by constantly suggesting pro-CCP propaganda, aggravating the general public to turn on each other, tracking vocal anti-CCP individuals and potentially targeting them while traveling abroad. That's a few off the top of my head.

> General election interference, manipulating public perception by constantly suggesting pro-CCP propaganda, aggravating the general public to turn on each other You mean what's happening everyday on Facebook and Twitter often being instigated by Chinese and Russian actors?

Pretty much and I hope they pay for it. It would be nice if those companies be actually held accountable where it makes sense. They might as well be operating from China! :)

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#208

Post by 6DM » Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 9:59 PM UTC

Bhilai wrote: post #102

6DM wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

General election interference, manipulating public perception by constantly suggesting pro-CCP propaganda, aggravating the general public to turn on each other, tracking vocal anti-CCP individuals and potentially targeting them while traveling abroad. That's a few off the top of my head.

US interferes in elections in many countries[1] [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/07/the-us-has...

and it shouldn’t be a thing.

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#209

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 9:59 PM UTC

bgorman wrote: post #199

SoylentYellow wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am focusing on WeChat only with this comment. It is not narrowly tailored or least restrictive. Narrowly tailored means the law must be precisely written to minimize the 1st Amendment impact. In this case, this order prevents millions of Americans from using their primary (and oftentimes only) method to communicate with family in China. There is no practical alternative to WeChat as all other similar apps are banne…

Honest question: Can you just use email?

[deleted]

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#210

Post by nullc » Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 10:00 PM UTC

I wonder what would happen if WeChat/TikTok opened up their protocols and let people connect with arbitrary software, including self written and open source stuff.

The malware vector concerns would be gone. They could still spy on communication that wasn't E2E encrypted or impersonate users but that concern arises with essentially every communications service.