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US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

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Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#121

Post by kelnos »

grumple wrote: post #113
akersten wrote: post #110

When will Apple and Google come out and say "no" to this? What is the legislative mechanism that gives the Dept of Commerce control over what code (speech) is transmitted on their app platform? Calling it a "transaction" is a stretch - using that logic, Department of Commerce could ban any online download they wanted. That's clearly not a good outcome, and not an interpretation we as technologists should accept.

Can't they? Aren't there bans on open source contributions between Iran and the US? See: https://github.com/1995parham/github-do-not-ban-us

I think there's a legal difference between declaring an entire country and its citizens subject to these sorts of restrictions (which is allowed), vs. singling out specific companies.

But unfortunately the executive has been granted a lot of ambiguous and murky power under the guise of "national security" and things like that, so I wouldn't be surprised if these actions are indeed legal, but the root of the legality is something other than ITAR or OFAC.

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#122

Post by mdorazio »

vbezhenar wrote: post #75
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, separate from the Trump Administration's actual motivations (which I think are at best vague and at worst petty retaliation), I thought this NY Times editorial made a pretty strong case in favor of banning these platforms: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/18/opinion/tiktok-wechat-ban... TikTok and WeChat benefit from being the only social networks that can be accessed from all of the largest internet markets in th…

Imagine that Russia bans Facebook because of those reasons. Do you think that would be a good move?

Considering that China already did ban Facebook along with quite a few other US-originated apps, I'm not sure what your point is here.

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#124

Post by claudeganon »

johnnyfaehell wrote: post #71
TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling the ban evil is a bit hyperbolic IMO, or maybe just incomplete. Phones with the software could easily be compromised. Users with the software can be profiled and tracked by the Chinese government pretty easily. The Chinese market bans most of America's social media software, and we're entering a trade war. All these are real, legitimate reasons to ban it.

> Users with the software can be profiled and tracked by the Chinese government pretty easily. This is true of all apps coming out of the US with the NSA. Should Google, Facebook, Netflix be banned in Europe? > and we're entering a trade war. The trade war started a while ago and I'm pretty sure China is winning it.

From a user security standpoint, absolutely. But given that Europe relies on the US for military protection and trade, it’s unlikely to happen.

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#125

Post by dahfizz »

CWuestefeld wrote: post #77
hirundo wrote: post #17

Banning a speech app should trigger strict judicial scrutiny for first amendment infringement in the same way that banning a newspaper would: 1. Is it necessary to a "compelling state interest"? Maybe they are CCP surveillance apps, but that needs be shown in court, not merely asserted. 2. Is it "narrowly tailored" to achieving this compelling purpose? This seems narrowly tailored to two apps. 3. Does it use the "lea…

This seems narrowly tailored to two apps. Doesn't that make it a Bill of Attainder, which is unconstitutional? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_of_attainder A bill of attainder (also known as an act of attainder or writ of attainder or bill of penalties) is an act of a legislature declaring a person, or a group of persons, guilty of some crime, and punishing them, often without a trial.

>is an act of a legislature

Seems pretty clear that this does not apply to actions of the commerce department because they are not a legislature. They are not finding China / the apps guilty of a crime or punishing them for that crime.

Even if Congress issued this ban, Congress has the explicit right to regulate commerce in the constitution. Trade embargo and sanctions are a very well established power of the government and does not include "declaring a person or group of people guilty of some crime".

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#126

Post by newen »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #107
entropea wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Watch the latest Triumph bit from the Colbert show to see the mentality of Trump supporters. Not a defense of Trump supporters here, but do we know how many were edited out that intelligently spoke on issues to form the Triumph bit? Without that, you can't really make any determinations. On top of that, the sample size is likely very small.

Editing doesn't matter. They all signed a release knowing that their recorded statements were perfectly fine in their own heads.

It’s easy to find a lot of idiots who hate Trump too. Editing matters a lot.

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#127

Post by echevil »

Bhilai wrote: post #94
TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling the ban evil is a bit hyperbolic IMO, or maybe just incomplete. Phones with the software could easily be compromised. Users with the software can be profiled and tracked by the Chinese government pretty easily. The Chinese market bans most of America's social media software, and we're entering a trade war. All these are real, legitimate reasons to ban it.

> The Chinese market bans most of America's social media software, and we're entering a trade war. America is not China and should not frame its policies based on China's policies. While, I agree there is a need to retaliate but 'be like China' is hardly the way to do it.

No this is not "be like China", don't flatter yourself. When Facebook and Twitter was banned, there were imminent security threats as these platforms were used for organized crimes in China, and these companies simply ignores the requests from Chinese government to remove certain accounts. Google decided to not comply with local rules and left China by itself.

US didn't even bother to find a plausible excuse

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#128

Post by kelnos »

technoplato wrote: post #8

I’m genuinely curious what the perceived threat is here. Is it as simple as “China is going to read everyone’s stuff and use machine learning to figure out what the cool kids are doing and then brainwash them?”

My take on it is that it's a distraction tactic. The current administration is pissed off at China for a variety of reasons, and wants to punish them, while also taking attention away from intelligence reports about Russian election interference.

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#130

Post by kelnos »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #42
technoplato wrote: post #8

I’m genuinely curious what the perceived threat is here. Is it as simple as “China is going to read everyone’s stuff and use machine learning to figure out what the cool kids are doing and then brainwash them?”

So, separate from the Trump Administration's actual motivations (which I think are at best vague and at worst petty retaliation), I thought this NY Times editorial made a pretty strong case in favor of banning these platforms: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/18/opinion/tiktok-wechat-ban... TikTok and WeChat benefit from being the only social networks that can be accessed from all of the largest internet markets in th…

I agree. I too am not sure that these sorts of bans are the right move, but China's relentless restrictiveness vs. most of the rest of the world's openness cannot be good for the rest of the world.
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