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Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu

531–540 of 540 posts

Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#531

Warning: I'm not sure how to formulate that properly, I hope no-one gets offended to much. I think one of the worst thinks you can do is to be afraid of a word itself. But that's exactly where it has come to. It often seems that just pronouncing the n* word or spelling it out is highly offensive. But IMHO this is super bad for the people who are offended. If there is a problem you should speak about it and this inclu…

FYI, your etymology is wrong. The n word derives from spanish and latin for black (this itself possibly derived from the proto-indo-european for "night"). While Nigeria and the Niger river come from local African languages for "river", although that pronunciation itself is probably influenced by the same latin-for-black. What eventually became Nigeria was a British company founded in 1886, well after the n-word was i…

Oh, thank you. Doesn't change much practically but it's very good to know.

Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#532

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not confined to universities, either. This growing list of "forbidden words" is making its way into the corporate world, too. Coupled with spineless HR who don't know how to constructively deal with people who claim to be offended. My current company is undertaking a massive, probably thousand man-year (sorry, person-year), effort to scrub all its internal and external documentation and even source code of any f…

Can you kindly provide an example of the type of behavior you might engage in at work in absence of the 'woke patrol' (as you described it)?

I got into trouble any time I said “guys” as a generic term for “y’all”. Also, I got in trouble for saying ladies or girls or women. I’m honestly not sure how I was supposed to describe a group of women. But no matter what noun I used, a colleague got offended. I quit that job as fast as I could. The company is now defunct, but I’m sure that colleague is still a real pleasure to work with wherever he ended up.

Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#533
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm currently studying Danish and can't help but be amused when every 'lyt og gentag' exercise ends with 'slut'. But just as in the OP, it's not even the same vowel as the English word, so the resemblance is only passing. How absurd that careers may be ruined by using the wrong two consonants next to each other. How absurd that we call it progress.

Have you come across a "fartkontrol" yet? Or taken a lift with a light that says "i fart"?

When I visited Germany, I giggled every time I saw the road sign that looked like it said: “Ass fart”

Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This essay provides a highly thought-provoking answer: https://quillette.com/2020/08/16/the-challenge-of-marxism/ The argument is sophisticated and hard to summarise, but essentially, the author argues that "enlightenment liberalism" (i.e. the sort of philosophy that dominates universities) has a flaw at its centre that both creates Marxists and causes "enlightenment liberals" to constantly give in to the demands of…

A nice example of "Everything I dislike is Marxism". Marx was extra specific in which his historical analysis was about economic classes. The framework he cites with the opossing groups is not exclusive to marxism, but hey, I guess it wouldn't be scary enough to the casual reader calling it Hegelianism for example. Weird enough, the article gets a lot right, the critique of liberalism is on point IMO, but I don't rea…

The first part of the essay does go into the question of whether what's happening can be truly called Marxism. I believe he argues convincingly that it can be, although indeed, everyone accepts that the "neo-Marxists" or whatever you want to call them don't call themselves that (BLM leadership excepted!), and they have moved on from an arbitrary notion of two economic classes to slightly less arbitrary notion of two races (white vs BIPOC/minorities/whatever it is today). A few other bits of jargon have been renamed, but otherwise the belief framework is intact.

Marx is by far the most famous proponent of this kind of dual class oppression/revolution based framework. Someone really deep into the history of that stuff might prefer the term Hegelianism, but it's hardly more useful for communication. There's a large population at least roughly familiar with what Marx believed and far more importantly, what happened everywhere his followers took power. The essay does acknowledge that the underlying worldview pre-dates Marx, and the term Marxism is thus merely a useful handle to describe that bundle of worldviews. It's not saying he invented the whole thing from scratch.

BTW: Quillette is not a liberal magazine and Hazony is a highly conservative Jewish nationalist.

Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#535
post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This essay provides a highly thought-provoking answer: https://quillette.com/2020/08/16/the-challenge-of-marxism/ The argument is sophisticated and hard to summarise, but essentially, the author argues that "enlightenment liberalism" (i.e. the sort of philosophy that dominates universities) has a flaw at its centre that both creates Marxists and causes "enlightenment liberals" to constantly give in to the demands of…

I'm not necessarily against this but I don't think it goes deep enough. I think a better societal/psychological explanation can be found in the first third of Industrial Society and its Future. [0] [0] Free read: https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/unab...

Thanks. I've never read that document before. The first third is indeed thought provoking.

What's awkward is I've now read at least three apparently compelling and logical explanations for the left/right divide, but some of them contradict each other in various ways.

Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A nice example of "Everything I dislike is Marxism". Marx was extra specific in which his historical analysis was about economic classes. The framework he cites with the opossing groups is not exclusive to marxism, but hey, I guess it wouldn't be scary enough to the casual reader calling it Hegelianism for example. Weird enough, the article gets a lot right, the critique of liberalism is on point IMO, but I don't rea…

The first part of the essay does go into the question of whether what's happening can be truly called Marxism. I believe he argues convincingly that it can be, although indeed, everyone accepts that the "neo-Marxists" or whatever you want to call them don't call themselves that (BLM leadership excepted!), and they have moved on from an arbitrary notion of two economic classes to slightly less arbitrary notion of two…

>I believe he argues convincingly that it can be

It's pretty convincing when you read third party accounts of Marxism by right wing spokesman who have a lot to gain to equating what they don't like to Marxism. When you read either Marxists (plenty of others besides BLM) or the ones who you call Neo-Marxists, you find Marxists sighing when not Marxism is called Marxism, and the so called "Neo-Marxists" criticizing Marx.

>arbitrary notion of two economic classes to slightly less arbitrary notion of two races.

Every classification is arbitrary, although you can argue about it's usefulness or consistency.

>A few other bits of jargon have been renamed, but otherwise the belief framework is intact.

Except the most essential part which makes the framework consistent. But hey, if you squint hard enough even a dog can be a cat.

>Marx is by far the most famous proponent of this kind of dual class oppression/revolution based framework. Someone really deep into the history of that stuff might prefer the term Hegelianism, but it's hardly more useful for communication.

Marx is known for a lot of things, to be honest I don't be surprised if some isolated community believes that Marx had babies for breakfast, this is an effect of being an ideological boogeyman. Regardless of what you think of communism, it should be hard to deny the depth of his philosophical and historical points, if not that it's a regular POV. With that in mind, adding more legends to the Marxist black legend should be considered the opposite of useful communication.

>The essay does acknowledge that the underlying worldview pre-dates Marx, and the term Marxism is thus merely a useful handle to describe that bundle of worldviews.

Yes, as mentioned this is exactly my main problem with the essay, the author even spells out my main point, but still framing this as a external factor "corrupting" liberalism.

>BTW: Quillette is not a liberal magazine and Hazony is a highly conservative Jewish nationalist.

I was not familiar with the writer, and mixed the liberal term with the more American Libertarian. My mistake.

Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not so hard to understand. The issue is the legacy of slavery, and Nigerian immigrants aren't dealing with that.

Slavery has occurred in almost every society over the years, until the last two or three hundred years, including in Nigeria https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Nigeria See "Black rednecks and white liberals" by thomas sowell for more info (Thomas sowell is a black american economics professor and writer, for any in the audience who decide what is worth reading based on the skin color or ethnicity of the autho…

No worries, people who decide who is worth reading based on skin color also introduced the oreo concept so their world view doesnt have to be challenged.

Pesonally I belive anybody should read Sowell

Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#538
post #40

> "Professor Greg Patton repeated several times a Chinese word that sounds very similar to a vile racial slur in English. Understandably, this caused great pain and upset among students, and for that I am deeply sorry. It is simply unacceptable for faculty to use words in class that can marginalize, hurt and harm the psychological safety of our students. We must and we will do better." It's unbelievable that this "un…

I think that microaggressions are real, that language really has import, and I've been noticing those kinds of things more and more on a daily basis. But this is entirely unwarranted and a gross overreaction. Having said that, I also understand the terror that this kind of issue generates in organisations. Imagine you're the dean of an institution in an environment where people only read the headlines in their Facebo…

If they are really worried about such headlines, I can tell you the next escalation level: geography lecturer dismissed because of using an N word (northpol)

Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#539
post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From Wikipedia: > Microaggression is a term used for brief and commonplace daily verbal or behavioural indignities, whether intentional or unintentional It’s the unintentional part that I take issue with, which means that it’s not on you to understand the context of my statement, it’s on me to imagine the infinite variety of ways you might interpret my statement and vet them for possible insensitivity before making i…

If you don't understand micro-agressions, then you don't understand bullying. Because that's all micro-agressions are. Unintentional bullying. Intentionality is not relevant with micro-agressions. Parse the nomenclature all you like, but people unintentionally cause harm all the time. The issue is when as a society, those things are so commonplace that they repeat over and over in a constant loop. For example, if som…

[deleted]

Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Slight correction, this is an MBA class, not undergrad.) This decision doesn't even make sense from the perspective of vocational training. Being able to hear 那个 without great pain and upset is a directly job-applicable communication tool - there are many jobs working with Mandarin speakers that students won't be able to handle if the word traumatizes them.

It almost makes more sense as an MBA class: How to respond to accusations of racial insensitivy 101.

Teacher got an F in this case?
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