91% of plastic isn't recycled (2018) • Hacker News Board

Re: 91% of plastic isn't recycled (2018)

#221

Post by Dylan16807 » Wed, Sep 16, 2020, 2:09 PM UTC

ouid wrote: post #204

thereisnospork wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What specifically, and how large (dollars / plastic item/unit) are these externalites? If you can't describe and quantify them then there isn't an argument for compensating (taxes, bans) against them. [0] e.g. If I dump 100 PET soda bottles into the ocean how many humans would be inconvenienced, how many fish killed? My napkin math says essentially none of either.

Your napkin math says this? So it must be right then... Surely all that is required for such a decision on the scale of every human doing this every year is some napkin math.

Napkin math is better than your complete lack of anything that resembles a number.

Re: 91% of plastic isn't recycled (2018)

#222

Post by DoingIsLearning » Wed, Sep 16, 2020, 2:30 PM UTC

replicatorblog wrote: post #175

konjin wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And? They would be using something else as packaging if not for plastics. People are resourceful like that.

Yeah, perhaps they can use catgut or something as a replacement for central lines. Waxed paper is well known to have the same antimicrobial attributes as hydrophobic plastics. All but for the greed of Exxon...

To scare and threaten people with a near collapse of the medical device industry, if packaging manufacturers aren't allowed to operate unregulated, sounds like borderline lobbyist desperation tactics.

I hope we as Humans are better than this.

Re: 91% of plastic isn't recycled (2018)

#223

Post by forgotmypw17 » Wed, Sep 16, 2020, 3:12 PM UTC

chubot wrote: post #164

forgotmypw17 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am fregan for environmental reasons, among others. I get much of my food out of dumpsters. I don't buy any clothes, like, ever, only hand-me-downs. I don't ride in a car unless it's already going that way. Several years ago, I paid a couple hundred bucks to get my municipal water (large U.S. city) tested in a lab. After seeing the results, I almost never drink tap water, and I buy a gallon of spring water (in clear…

Why not use a water filter and glassware? That's what I've done at home for 15+ years. I think many workplaces also have filtered water, including every place of worked at (although not everyone uses it). The "water cooler" was a really good solution!

Indeed, sibling comment is correct in that, unless you invest in a serious filter, it won't filter out much except sediment.

Re: 91% of plastic isn't recycled (2018)

#224

Post by chubot » Wed, Sep 16, 2020, 3:25 PM UTC

forgotmypw17 wrote: post #223

chubot wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not use a water filter and glassware? That's what I've done at home for 15+ years. I think many workplaces also have filtered water, including every place of worked at (although not everyone uses it). The "water cooler" was a really good solution!

Indeed, sibling comment is correct in that, unless you invest in a serious filter, it won't filter out much except sediment.

Is bottled water better? I remember a TV report long ago specifically saying it's worse in that regard.

Anyway, I've been drinking filtered tap for 15+ years all over the United States -- never had a problem and tastes great.

Re: 91% of plastic isn't recycled (2018)

#225

Post by wcoenen » Wed, Sep 16, 2020, 3:34 PM UTC

DoingIsLearning wrote: post #209

wcoenen wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Simply google "plastic endocrine disruptors" I did, and found that the 1996 paper that helped launch the movement against endocrine disruptors, was retracted in 2001 because the data was made up. https://grants.nih.gov/grants/guide/notice-files/NOT-OD-02-0... (I'm not making any claim here about whether endocrine disruptors in our environment are a problem or not. Maybe they are. But I don't like to be told "just G…

Fair point, I assumed this to be a matter-of-fact but I add more info below. Evidence on the health effects of Bisphenol and Pthalates (commonly used chemicals in plastics): - Influence in hormone dependent types of cancer https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31471387/ - Influence in Cardiovascular disease https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32438096/ - Influence in Female and male fertility https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31…

I think I owe you an apology for my snarky comment. I shouldn't start fact checking before my first coffee in the morning...

Re: 91% of plastic isn't recycled (2018)

#226

Post by cheshireoctopus » Wed, Sep 16, 2020, 4:12 PM UTC

diggan wrote: post #6

Fitting, I just started looking into reusing plastic myself by collecting plastic from my own, family and friends trash and remoulding it into something useful. In my quest for this, I found Precious Plastic, an amazing community around recycling plastics yourself and for your community. https://preciousplastic.com/ While individuals plastic pollution is not the biggest emitter of plastic here in the world, we can al…

This is REALLY cool.

How can I meet people around me who have already setup a collection point, a community point, or a machine shop?

Do you have an onboarding guide for beginners who are looking for low-effort ways to explore what you are doing?

Re: 91% of plastic isn't recycled (2018)

#227

Post by forgotmypw17 » Wed, Sep 16, 2020, 4:14 PM UTC

chubot wrote: post #224

forgotmypw17 wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, sibling comment is correct in that, unless you invest in a serious filter, it won't filter out much except sediment.

Is bottled water better? I remember a TV report long ago specifically saying it's worse in that regard. Anyway, I've been drinking filtered tap for 15+ years all over the United States -- never had a problem and tastes great.

Not always. You have to do your research and pick and choose.

TV won't give you any useful information.

Re: 91% of plastic isn't recycled (2018)

#228

Post by ZeroGravitas » Wed, Sep 16, 2020, 4:20 PM UTC

waterhouse wrote: post #188

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And here's their equally scientifically accurate take on climate change from the same time period. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fWt2Rir8OQk Big fan of both Penn and Teller but libertarian bullshit is still bullshit and they proved that even smart people fall for it if they hang in the wrong circles too much.

Did we watch the same video? "Every tingly spidey sense, every sniff, every whiff, smells like global warming—which they now call climate change, in case they want to go the other way and say it's colder—but it just reeks of fuckin' bullshit to me. And yet, in good conscience, we can't really come out and say it's bullshit, because there isn't enough information to really refute it completely. And there is some infor…

No you don't.

Just replace climate change with another established scientific fact that you actually agree with, like the earth being a globe perhaps, and you'll see what you sound like to people outside your bubble.

> "Every tingly spidey sense, every sniff, every whiff, smells like global earth—which they now call non-flat earth, in case they want to go the other way and say it's a pyramid or banana-shape—but it just reeks of fuckin' bullshit to me.

> And yet, in good conscience, we can't really come out and say it's bullshit, because there isn't enough information to really refute it completely. And there is some information that it might be real.

> So—the high-dea is not to go with your gut, the idea is to go with your head, and our heads can't say that the spherical earth is complete and utter bullshit. So we're doing—again, this is like our third show that's kind of sort of on global shape—we're kind of picking out one area that we're sure is bullshit, and that is the funding for satellites, which would only make sense if the earth was a globe. What a waste of money. Millions down the drain!

Says a lot about Libertarian ideas that the one thing they attack is using market mechanisms to address the problem. Clearly principles get trumped by fossil fuel funding.

Re: 91% of plastic isn't recycled (2018)

#229

Post by greedo » Wed, Sep 16, 2020, 5:12 PM UTC

lettergram wrote: post #21

vinhboy wrote: post #12

I don't really understand why recycling plastic is not viable. I feel like this is more of a problem with ideology than actual process. For example, I buy these "Green Toys" products that are supposedly made from recycled plastic and I love it. I have no idea why this recycled plastic is not used in other kid's toys, kitchenware, or random things like garden tools. This recycled plastic is tough, it doesn't decay in…

In a large part it has to do with the logistics. For simplicity: Oil is used for plastic, the specific kind of oil is siphoned off and processed in bulk for plastic. If you want to recapture plastic and recycle. You’d need to get plastic, separate it, reprocess (more expensive in most cases), then you could mold again (often at a slight loss of input, I.e. there will be waste). This makes recycling plastic (today) mu…

The packaging for a bottle of soda wouldn't double the cost. Soda was distributed in glass bottles which cost more to transport, yet prices weren't nuts back in the day. Most of the cost of soda is sugar. The markup on soda (whether sold in containers or from a fountain) is astronomical.

Re: 91% of plastic isn't recycled (2018)

#230

Post by xadhominemx » Wed, Sep 16, 2020, 5:16 PM UTC

DoingIsLearning wrote: post #220

xadhominemx wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Single use plastics are a tiny fraction of our carbon footprint. They are also very convenient and make users’ lives better. It would be a strange place to start with severe regulation.

> Single use plastics are a tiny fraction of our carbon footprint ... And a Lion's share of the microplastic calamity contaminating our oceans, our ground water and our food supply. Not everything is about CO2 emissions. With a single business decision, Humans have managed to contaminate the whole water cycle with micro-plastics all the way up to alpine glaciers. [0] Single-use plastic is outstandingly great for sell…

How much of the microplastic contamination is from consumer goods packaging from western countries? The vast majority is from fishing nets and illegal dumping of household trash by developing countries.