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91% of plastic isn't recycled (2018)

nationalgeographic.com

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Re: 91% of plastic isn't recycled (2018)

#41

Post by fullstop »

narwally wrote: post #14

This is for glass recycling not plastic, but I recently found out that my county ships all of their glass recyclables to be dumped in a landfill of a neighboring state. In my state, waste disposal companies are legally obligated to recycle everything they can that ends up in a recycling bin. But with glass it's actually vastly cheaper to produce new glass bottles than it is to make them out of recycled material. So t…

At least the glass is inert.

At some point in the future landfills will be on par with gold mines, and only then will we see how truly wasteful we have been.

Re: 91% of plastic isn't recycled (2018)

#42

Post by chubot »

I still don't get how bottled water became a thing. It wasn't a thing when I was a kid, and somehow the industry convinced us to buy huge quantities of an inferior product for more money, and it pollutes the environment to boot. Insane.

The least you can do is use a refillable container.

10+ years ago Google switched from bottle water to giving everyone a container. And that was a great move. Yet people complained, and a few years later we were back to bottled water.

What a waste.

Re: 91% of plastic isn't recycled (2018)

#44

Post by ZeroGravitas »

noxer wrote: post #28

PENN & TELLER: BULLSHIT S02EP05 Recycling https://www.bitchute.com/video/j0Hd6UfA4MKo/ Yes its old but not much has changed.

And here's their equally scientifically accurate take on climate change from the same time period.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fWt2Rir8OQk

Big fan of both Penn and Teller but libertarian bullshit is still bullshit and they proved that even smart people fall for it if they hang in the wrong circles too much.

Re: 91% of plastic isn't recycled (2018)

#45

Post by TylerE »

DoingIsLearning wrote: post #19

The Plastic recycling process as a whole is an incredibly succesful cost externalization for the petro-chemical and packaging industries. Governments and consumers need to get serious with these lobbies: - Ban ALL single-use plastic (except for medical supplies). - Heavily tax plastic packaging - Tax breaks for glass and paper packaging - Force plastic return deposit schemes at supermarkets _payed for by manufacturer…

You're just assuming that glass is better than plastic.

I challenge that assumption.

Glass is much heavier and bulkier (so a truck will carry less product, and burn more fuel and cause more road wear to do so), and more product will be lost to spoilage.

Re: 91% of plastic isn't recycled (2018)

#46

Post by dahart »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #31
dahart wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not buying plastic is a better solution. But is that realistic for you right now? If everyone thinks the same thing you do, and gives up without trying, then we never start solving the massive problem. Instead if everyone recycles, then we begin the process of keeping the problem from growing even larger than it already is. I do think you raise a great point that it's a little silly to put this on the shoulders of in…

>Instead if everyone recycles, then we begin the process of keeping the problem from growing even larger than it already is. Or you give people an excuse to consume more because now they can feel good about their consumption. Recycling does not solve any problems, as the revelations of the past decade have shown. Reducing consumption is the only solution, and recycling was the excuse sold to the public to keep the co…

Well, this is a good point, plastic recycling isn't working well at all, and this article demonstrates what you're saying.

I would say that paper recycling has been working, it's plastic recycling that isn't currently working. I would also say that it's not that plastic recycling can't work, it's just that it hasn't been working.

I am curious why it's not working. Would mandatory recycling help? Is it the recycling services cheating, taking money to recycle but throwing it away instead? Is the issue public mistrust of municipal water? I do suspect there are ways to make a much bigger dent than we have by better understanding what's happening.

Anyway, all that said, I tend to agree with you that recycling is being used ironically as a way to continue consumption and avoid responsibility rather than start the real work of reducing plastic production.

Yeah I don't know. I'm a little torn, I don't want to give up all hope on plastic recycling, but I think you're right, we probably need amputation more than stitches.

Re: 91% of plastic isn't recycled (2018)

#47

Post by Goronmon »

wolco wrote: post #36
lotsofpulp wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It seems like the only way to make recycling truly effective at a large scale is to make it economically viable I think it's easier and less corruptible to have the goal be to reduce the consumption causing the waste and attack the problem at the root. I.e. a tax increasing the cost of everything to reflect the cost of properly disposing it. Recycling doesn't undo the environmental damage, and in many cases it takes…

Doesn't this hurt the poor while enabling the rich to continue being wasteful.

Doesn't this hurt the poor while enabling the rich to continue being wasteful.

Absolutely

Re: 91% of plastic isn't recycled (2018)

#48

Post by Dylan16807 »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #31
dahart wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not buying plastic is a better solution. But is that realistic for you right now? If everyone thinks the same thing you do, and gives up without trying, then we never start solving the massive problem. Instead if everyone recycles, then we begin the process of keeping the problem from growing even larger than it already is. I do think you raise a great point that it's a little silly to put this on the shoulders of in…

>Instead if everyone recycles, then we begin the process of keeping the problem from growing even larger than it already is. Or you give people an excuse to consume more because now they can feel good about their consumption. Recycling does not solve any problems, as the revelations of the past decade have shown. Reducing consumption is the only solution, and recycling was the excuse sold to the public to keep the co…

> Recycling does not solve any problems, as the revelations of the past decade have shown.

Fair.

> Reducing consumption is the only solution

Reducing waste is the important part, which may or may not involve reducing consumption.

Better waste management is also an alternative solution.

Re: 91% of plastic isn't recycled (2018)

#49

Post by NoSorryCannot »

DoingIsLearning wrote: post #19

The Plastic recycling process as a whole is an incredibly succesful cost externalization for the petro-chemical and packaging industries. Governments and consumers need to get serious with these lobbies: - Ban ALL single-use plastic (except for medical supplies). - Heavily tax plastic packaging - Tax breaks for glass and paper packaging - Force plastic return deposit schemes at supermarkets _payed for by manufacturer…

I think assessing and charging at the time of distribution, as best as can be estimated, the total cost of responsible disposal would be sufficient to align incentives, for both manufacturers and consumers. More waste means higher prices.

And fees so assessed should actually pay for disposal. Of everything. Discourage dumping and garbage burning by making waste collection "free" (in reality paid in advance at time of purchase).

Re: 91% of plastic isn't recycled (2018)

#50

Post by gruez »

vinhboy wrote: post #32
gruez wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't really understand why recycling plastic is not viable. I feel like this is more of a problem with ideology than actual process. [...] Anyways, if someone smarter than me tells me the economics doesn't work, I will believe them, but until then I am skeptical of the idea that we can't properly recycle plastic. This comment is baffling. In the beginning you think it's an ideological issue. Later on you acknowle…

You're probably right. My comment was confusing so I edited it to make it more coherent. I struggle with writing, so I appreciate the feedback to improve it. However, regarding your comment > In the beginning you think it's an ideological issue. Later on you acknowledge that cost might be an issue I don't see these as contradictory. Ideology affects what people are willing to spend. As someone who cares about the env…

>I don't see these as contradictory. Ideology affects what people are willing to spend. As someone who cares about the environment I don't mind spending more on recycled plastic to reduce waste. Most of my peers would not spend a cent more if they don't have to.

I disagree with this characterization. Photovoltaic technology in the 70s were insanely expensive and clearly not economical compared to the alternatives. There were some environmental enthusiasts who would use it despite the economic issues, but I wouldn't characterize the lack of adoption in photovoltaic technology as being an "ideological problem"

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