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91% of plastic isn't recycled (2018)

nationalgeographic.com

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Re: 91% of plastic isn't recycled (2018)

#31

Post by lotsofpulp »

dahart wrote: post #13
ccktlmazeltov wrote: post #7

People are so into recycling, but I fail to see how I can make a difference by recycling. It just seems like the problem is too massive at this point.

Not buying plastic is a better solution. But is that realistic for you right now? If everyone thinks the same thing you do, and gives up without trying, then we never start solving the massive problem. Instead if everyone recycles, then we begin the process of keeping the problem from growing even larger than it already is. I do think you raise a great point that it's a little silly to put this on the shoulders of in…

>Instead if everyone recycles, then we begin the process of keeping the problem from growing even larger than it already is.

Or you give people an excuse to consume more because now they can feel good about their consumption. Recycling does not solve any problems, as the revelations of the past decade have shown. Reducing consumption is the only solution, and recycling was the excuse sold to the public to keep the consumption music going.

Re: 91% of plastic isn't recycled (2018)

#32

Post by vinhboy »

gruez wrote: post #20
vinhboy wrote: post #12

I don't really understand why recycling plastic is not viable. I feel like this is more of a problem with ideology than actual process. For example, I buy these "Green Toys" products that are supposedly made from recycled plastic and I love it. I have no idea why this recycled plastic is not used in other kid's toys, kitchenware, or random things like garden tools. This recycled plastic is tough, it doesn't decay in…

>I don't really understand why recycling plastic is not viable. I feel like this is more of a problem with ideology than actual process. [...] Anyways, if someone smarter than me tells me the economics doesn't work, I will believe them, but until then I am skeptical of the idea that we can't properly recycle plastic. This comment is baffling. In the beginning you think it's an ideological issue. Later on you acknowle…

You're probably right. My comment was confusing so I edited it to make it more coherent. I struggle with writing, so I appreciate the feedback to improve it.

However, regarding your comment

> In the beginning you think it's an ideological issue. Later on you acknowledge that cost might be an issue

I don't see these as contradictory. Ideology affects what people are willing to spend. As someone who cares about the environment I don't mind spending more on recycled plastic to reduce waste. Most of my peers would not spend a cent more if they don't have to.

Re: 91% of plastic isn't recycled (2018)

#33

Post by makecheck »

DoingIsLearning wrote: post #19

The Plastic recycling process as a whole is an incredibly succesful cost externalization for the petro-chemical and packaging industries. Governments and consumers need to get serious with these lobbies: - Ban ALL single-use plastic (except for medical supplies). - Heavily tax plastic packaging - Tax breaks for glass and paper packaging - Force plastic return deposit schemes at supermarkets _payed for by manufacturer…

I’m not against these ideas but you do have to zoom out a bit to fully realize the impact of each alternative. It’s not as simple as replacing a “bad” one with a “good” one, because there are side effects.

(I haven’t added up the total impacts of every option either; this is just something to consider.)

For example, glass is much heavier than the plastic used for bottles. If you have trucks/etc. hauling millions of bottles around the world, it will take more energy to move glass bottles. Glass is also fragile so it’s possible there is more shipping material or more random losses affecting cost. So then the problem is not just how to replace plastic bottles with glass but how to offset the added environmental cost of transporting glass.

Re: 91% of plastic isn't recycled (2018)

#34

Post by elliekelly »

vinhboy wrote: post #12

I don't really understand why recycling plastic is not viable. I feel like this is more of a problem with ideology than actual process. For example, I buy these "Green Toys" products that are supposedly made from recycled plastic and I love it. I have no idea why this recycled plastic is not used in other kid's toys, kitchenware, or random things like garden tools. This recycled plastic is tough, it doesn't decay in…

Have you noticed they’re more expensive than other plastic toys? “Recycled” plastic toys aren’t much different from other types of “green” marketing - they’re charging for a slightly premium product but the market is niche: upper middle class people who care about the environment and aren’t super price conscious.

Re: 91% of plastic isn't recycled (2018)

#35

Post by chmod600 »

DoingIsLearning wrote: post #19

The Plastic recycling process as a whole is an incredibly succesful cost externalization for the petro-chemical and packaging industries. Governments and consumers need to get serious with these lobbies: - Ban ALL single-use plastic (except for medical supplies). - Heavily tax plastic packaging - Tax breaks for glass and paper packaging - Force plastic return deposit schemes at supermarkets _payed for by manufacturer…

A ban seems foolish. First you need to categorize things as "single-use" versus reusable, and people will argue about that distinction. Then, you need do deal with the inevitable unintended consequences from miscategorized items or bizarre alternatives companies choose to replace plastic.

A tax would be much more straightforward.

Re: 91% of plastic isn't recycled (2018)

#36

Post by wolco »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #17
narwally wrote: post #14

This is for glass recycling not plastic, but I recently found out that my county ships all of their glass recyclables to be dumped in a landfill of a neighboring state. In my state, waste disposal companies are legally obligated to recycle everything they can that ends up in a recycling bin. But with glass it's actually vastly cheaper to produce new glass bottles than it is to make them out of recycled material. So t…

>It seems like the only way to make recycling truly effective at a large scale is to make it economically viable I think it's easier and less corruptible to have the goal be to reduce the consumption causing the waste and attack the problem at the root. I.e. a tax increasing the cost of everything to reflect the cost of properly disposing it. Recycling doesn't undo the environmental damage, and in many cases it takes…

Doesn't this hurt the poor while enabling the rich to continue being wasteful.

Re: 91% of plastic isn't recycled (2018)

#37

Post by chmod600 »

scottndecker wrote: post #11
aNoob7000 wrote: post #5

Listen to the latest episode of Planet Money. https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510289/planet-money

This. Most plastics can't be recycled; it was a PR play by the plastic industry decades ago. Using plastics for such things as medical devices and such makes complete sense to me. Using plastics for items which inherently are only used for a few minutes or an hour (see the F&B industry) makes no sense at all to me.

"Using plastics for items which inherently are only used for a few minutes or an hour"

Of course it makes sense. Plastic is cheap, light, watertight, strong, and mallable.

It's kind of a miracle material, except that it's too stable. If we had a version that decomposed in a year, it would be awesome.

Re: 91% of plastic isn't recycled (2018)

#38

Post by njarboe »

ccktlmazeltov wrote: post #7

People are so into recycling, but I fail to see how I can make a difference by recycling. It just seems like the problem is too massive at this point.

What is the difference you are trying to make? If it is the depletion of resources and/or polluting to world, recycling is much, much less important than reducing consumption. One less airline trip per year, one less weekend road trip. Do you eat out? The amount of hidden waste in restaurant meals would amaze most people. Reduce the amount of meat you eat. Stay healthy so that you don't use the medical system.

Your instinct is right that recycling does not help much. It is more of a ritual to allow people to consume guilt free than an effective way toward a less polluted world.

Re: 91% of plastic isn't recycled (2018)

#39

Post by mulmen »

DoingIsLearning wrote: post #19

The Plastic recycling process as a whole is an incredibly succesful cost externalization for the petro-chemical and packaging industries. Governments and consumers need to get serious with these lobbies: - Ban ALL single-use plastic (except for medical supplies). - Heavily tax plastic packaging - Tax breaks for glass and paper packaging - Force plastic return deposit schemes at supermarkets _payed for by manufacturer…

What about single use plastic for things like cleaning supplies? Why only medical?

I don’t shop at a grocery store, how will I return my plastic, glass or metal containers?

Is plastic so bad if it gets reused?

If we don’t make plastic what happens to that portion of the petrochemical supply chain? Are there other constructive uses or does it just get dumped into a river somewhere?

Re: 91% of plastic isn't recycled (2018)

#40

Post by phobosanomaly »

Mvhsz wrote: post #26
ccktlmazeltov wrote: post #7

People are so into recycling, but I fail to see how I can make a difference by recycling. It just seems like the problem is too massive at this point.

Don't let plastic recycling get you down, recycling aluminum is a great way to help the environment. Paper and cardboard are also good. Glass is just ok. Reduce your consumption where possible, and make sure that non-recycleable materials make it to a landfill where the environmental impacts are contained. Our individual efforts have a small impact, but it's a small effort and it does matter. While there are some use…

Maybe if there was a simple setup to convert recyclable plastic into 3D-printing filament?
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