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Red flags I saw while doing technical interviews

blog.interviewing.io

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Re: Red flags I saw while doing technical interviews

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would echo your sentiment that the role of project manager, product owner or whatever they're calling it these days needs to be rethought. In my org we literally have a squadron of these individuals which leads to bickering and an in-cohesive product experience.

My issue with the two “PM”s I interact with the most: Project managers basically do something that the devs, especially dev manager, can handle themselves. It seems like a leftover process for when software contracting was more common. There’s no reason a developer can’t just manage the Kanban board and write a quick report. Product managers can be really good but in a lot of cases they just devolve into stakeholder…

I used to see things the way you do.

Then I actually ended up in the position where I took on the responsibilities of a Project Manager in the course of building a department. I see it much differently now having worn both those hats as a generalist. You're tracking two different sides of the same body of work, and there is solid value that a good project manager provides in terms of producing a meaningful skeletal specification on which more in depth technical analysis and work can be done.

In addition, not all devs are full on gung ho let me throw something out there that I know will be mostly wrong until the details get filled in by everyone else. As a PM, you're as much the Rock in a pot of Rock Soup as you are the guy in meetings all the time. I've had to eat a lot of humble pie since getting saddled with building a department. The challenge is as much making sure things are in the right place at the right time, defining what the right time is, and making sure to unblock people as they run into obstacles.

It's a completely different type of work from straight up technical work, and is fundamentally destructive to maintaining the fine grained technical context you need to accurately implement something. You don't want to have to do it all at the same time.

Re: Red flags I saw while doing technical interviews

#152

Role clarity is a huge one in my book. I've turned down numerous offers because when I asked what the specifics of my day to day job were going to be, the answers weren't clear. From the secret FAANG that likes to pretend what they are doing is defense contractor level top secret, and even after your hired you might not know what your actually working on, to the big companies where its clear the hiring manager only h…

> Role clarity is a huge one in my book.

While I could agree on larger tech companies, I certainly don't count this as a red flag for startups or smaller and/or younger tech departments within larger organizations.

A lot of times managers know they need more resources and/or skills but don't have a clear idea of exactly roles are divided - and maybe it's an organization with fluid or not defined roles in the first place.

I don't think that has to be a problem at all, on the contrary I thrive in such environments.

I've been at the same company for 3 years and I'm not sure I could give you a good answer to what, precisely, the role of me or my fellow engineers are. It's a pretty flat org. I'm happy to keep it that way.

Obviously there are many people that get frustrated or miserable without clear roles and responsibilities, but I think it's important that this is relative to the individual and not inherently a red flag.

Re: Red flags I saw while doing technical interviews

#153

I sometimes feel self-conscious asking deep questions about morale, especially when I'm on the fence about working at a place and am just being polite in case I need this as a Plan C. There are some questions where if you get the person to take them seriously you may pop whatever bubble they're living in that helps them get through the day. One place, I was not doing so great. I was participating in the interview pro…

Interesting. It seems almost immoral to interview new hires when you know there are insurmountable problems at the company that make you consider leaving.

Not saying you are immoral here -- just that it does seem to pose a dilemma. I have not had to interview someone for a company that I want to leave. It sounds like it would suck and require some level of internalized rationalization to go through with it.

Re: Red flags I saw while doing technical interviews

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of the big tech companies, I've worked at Facebook, Google, & Apple. I've still not quite cracked what's different about Apple culturally that they seem to be more immune to this problem. The only main difference I can spot is I don't recall ever encountering a PM at Apple. To do planning engineers would propose improvements, new features, etc. These were bubbled up. Then executives would be responsible for building…

Would echo your sentiment that the role of project manager, product owner or whatever they're calling it these days needs to be rethought. In my org we literally have a squadron of these individuals which leads to bickering and an in-cohesive product experience.

Been thinking a lot about this - right now I run eng for a pretty broad product in healthcare, and there is overlap between eng and product.

In your case, it sounds like you have crappy product leadership. This is _way_ too common.

You need a cohesive product vision from the top down (VP/head of product), which they communicate to their team of PMs. The head of product needs to ensure that their team can make the correct product decisions. This means guidelines on where the product is going, what the company prioritizes, and how products inter-play/work together.

With an actual vision from the top down, these calls which your PM team bicker on should become easy.

An engineering analogy: the CTO/lead architect sets the standard for the direction of engineering, its services, etc. This is followed by everyone in the engineering org (hopefully) with alignment and without bickering. This SHOULD happen for product, too.

Really, I've noticed that at upper management this is literally your job: ensure that people make the right decision, whether they're your team, your peers, or upwards to the CEO.

You could probably reach out to your engineering leader and have them coach the head of product here. After all, that's the engineering leader's role - making sure their peers make the right decision and remove blocks from you, the engineer.

Regarding overlap, a good PM should amplify engineering. You might be a product focused engineer, but trust me: an engineering team cannot and should not be focused on writing user stories, performing research, and deciding the larger impact of features alongside their regular job of executing with code.

Re: Red flags I saw while doing technical interviews

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My issue with the two “PM”s I interact with the most: Project managers basically do something that the devs, especially dev manager, can handle themselves. It seems like a leftover process for when software contracting was more common. There’s no reason a developer can’t just manage the Kanban board and write a quick report. Product managers can be really good but in a lot of cases they just devolve into stakeholder…

project manager are there to free devs mind from various distractions. I'm glad I can delegate them the reasoning about which task is more urgent, and them acting as buffer to clients frees me from a lot of time trying to understand what they want, how they want it and all the back and forth about how much they want to pay for it. good project managers, that aren't just bossing internal people around but working with…

Project managers are very useful when there are clients and budgets to deal with, as in outsourcing and contracting shops.

The role is not as useful in tech companies where developers are working permanently. It's actually hurting collaboration across teams if you start budgeting projects and people tightly.

Re: Red flags I saw while doing technical interviews

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I question most interviewers ability to evaluate someone as low or high skill. I honestly don't think the testing works most of the time.

If you really believe so, then I think you are failing to grasp how low "low skill" truly happens to be.

There is a reason that "FizzBuzz" is a meme! I love the expression, "Job candidates who can't seem to program their way out of a wet paper bag."

It's too true. A quick search found the source article that I read years ago here[0]. :)

0: http://wiki.c2.com/?FizzBuzzTest

Re: Red flags I saw while doing technical interviews

#157

Some of my hall of shame interviewers: - Everyone I interviewed on my would-be team felt like they were attending a funeral, never met a more depressed unenthusiastic bunch. - One of the interviewers wondering why I wanted this job as it was terrible, he stated he was looking to leave and warned me about the company. - Meeting room of interview room(conference room) reeked of sweat(when no one was there), it was disg…

Why hall of shame? 2 and 4 are top mates.

Re: Red flags I saw while doing technical interviews

#158

Role clarity is a huge one in my book. I've turned down numerous offers because when I asked what the specifics of my day to day job were going to be, the answers weren't clear. From the secret FAANG that likes to pretend what they are doing is defense contractor level top secret, and even after your hired you might not know what your actually working on, to the big companies where its clear the hiring manager only h…

Is it that bad not knowing the specifics of your day job?

Filling gaps can be interesting too, you get to see a lot of different things, and some companies actually try to put you on jobs you find interesting.

On the opposite side, some interviewers have a model job story to tell candidates, and it may actually be your job for a month, until they shut it down and have you join the ranks of turd polishers.

I'd say an even redder flag than not knowing what you will work on is getting what looks like the only interesting job in the company.

Re: Red flags I saw while doing technical interviews

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which part of fizzbuzz would be an issue for you?

Writing code on a whiteboard like it's a test or a competition, without being able to sit down in my editor of choice and calmly think it through and trial and error. Programming is not sports. I'm not a coding athlete. Maybe it is for some people, but not for me. That's not what the job I've held for all this time has ever been about. Plus you get to a certain age and experience and the thought of "proving myself" t…

If you have to sit down and deeply think about a question like fizzbuzz then as an interviewer I'd be a bit concerned - this is a quick check to make sure you're basically competent, not architecture of a critical piece of infrastructure.

If you just don't like hand writing and prefer typing, then that's cool with me and you can just do that during the interview (the content of interview is important, not the medium you write with).

If you're mentoring a 25 year old you'll have to prove yourself to them every day.

Re: Red flags I saw while doing technical interviews

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After being on both sides of the interview situation for quite a while now, my feeling on this is more nuanced. The thing is, when you look for a job, you will often go for 5 to 10 interviews. On the other end, when I'm looking for someone to fill a position in my team, I will interview at the very least 50 candidates. That is to say, all things equal, the interviewer has most likely more incentive than the interview…

Honestly, I question most interviewers ability to evaluate someone as low or high skill. I honestly don't think the testing works most of the time.

You're right to question it, but this is also why testing is so prevalent apart from the deluge of unqualified/barely qualified applicants. It's possible for a single person to spend an hour (perhaps over lunch) with prospective candidates and better evaluate them, with a corresponding better evaluation of the company by the candidate, without needing to do the multi-stage multi-test multi-people rigamarole big companies are addicted to. Similarly such people can usually detect resume BS better and whittle a list of 50 down to a shortlist of a few to spend that hour on each and come away with more than one good fit. But the skills needed to do that aren't widespread or taught or in many cases even acknowledged as existing. Hence tests, where when followed as a script can be given and scored by even the most disinterested programmer who'd rather be programming instead of doing their manager's job. Now you don't even need someone ok at resume BS detection to narrow the list, you can parallelize that 50 hours.

Of course the tests are proxies and often aren't even scored objectively. And most tests aren't very good at proxying anything general (hence companies' tendencies to have several). There's a lot of problems that remain, our industry doesn't take hiring seriously. But testing and trying to test as early as possible have come to dominate for not totally unreasonable reasons, and persist at the large companies despite the well-known negative trade-offs. It's a startup's/small company's advantage to not copy bigco's interview processes.

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