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We now consider Moment.js to be a legacy project in maintenance mode

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Re: We now consider Moment.js to be a legacy project in maintenance mode

#111

Post by bettem »

gandutraveler wrote: post #96

I see that immutability is major concern for backward incompatibility, however over years I've become so much used to moment js that I wish I can still use their API's. Can someone explain why is it so hard to release a completely new version that isn't backward compatible? We could as well use different naming so that it doesn't conflict with last versions. moment3().now()

That’s effective what day.js is. Its effectively an identical api and is incredibly lightweight in comparison with opt-in extensions.

Re: We now consider Moment.js to be a legacy project in maintenance mode

#112

Post by japgolly »

glintik wrote: post #73
dmit wrote: post #52

Please pardon this drive-by assessment of JS calendar libraries by a casual user. moment.js: Mutable. Thank you, next. Luxon: Takes the effort to implement `Interval`, which would be `Range ` in any proper language, but somehow avoids providing separate `Date` and `Time` objects. Day.js: When you kinda like moment.js, but your bundler says it's too fat. date-fns: The finest of pure, curry-able functions over the mine…

"moment.js: Mutable. Thank you, next." Mutable is not bad, buddy. You live in mutable world.

False comparison. We're not creating a copy of the mutable world, we're writing software. Pretty different. Good luck programming in DNA or whatever and knowing that your code does what you want it to do.

Re: We now consider Moment.js to be a legacy project in maintenance mode

#113

Post by 5h »

simongray wrote: post #91
5h wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Github having an objective "This isn't being worked on anymore" flag with a few options as to why, and pointers for where to reach a community for support/discussion would be most useful, especially overlaid on the crazy huge dependency graph frontend projects tend to acquire.

I think that is the point of the "archive" functionality: https://docs.github.com/en/github/creating-cloning-and-archi...

That's part of it, but doesn't give any useful data beyond 'archived' to make use of when considering your dependencies.

Re: We now consider Moment.js to be a legacy project in maintenance mode

#114

Post by skywhopper »

jasonkester wrote: post #92
tutfbhuf wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One of the problems is that GitHub is full of OSS libraries where the last commit was three years or more ago and you have no idea (without forensically analysing commits, issues, etc.) whether it's because the project is done or because the maintainer(s) lost interest, had other priorities, etc. I don't think there's any at least medium sized project that is considered to be done but not abandoned/legacy and does…

You might benefit from flipping this around and asking yourself why you're not able to ship software that remains shipped without intervention. And why you can't even imagine a world where that would be possible. If you spend some time and effort removing whatever obstacles you have in place that are keeping you from being able to do that, you'll have a lot more free time to spend building new things. For what it's w…

Wow! What software is this that is complete and doesn’t need maintenance? Based on my experience, it must be either very simple or very uninteresting.

Re: We now consider Moment.js to be a legacy project in maintenance mode

#115

Post by DougBTX »

scoopertrooper wrote: post #106
jasonkester wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might benefit from flipping this around and asking yourself why you're not able to ship software that remains shipped without intervention. And why you can't even imagine a world where that would be possible. If you spend some time and effort removing whatever obstacles you have in place that are keeping you from being able to do that, you'll have a lot more free time to spend building new things. For what it's w…

So your projects have no dependencies? You just write everything from scratch? Your code is perfect the first time you write it? I'm utterly confused by this comment.

A project can't be more stable than its dependencies and tooling, but that doesn't mean that the only way to be stable is to have no dependencies.

Some programming languages make guarantees that old code will build in new versions (eg, ISO C even refuses to introduce new warnings for code that would previously build without warnings), while others will introduce backwards incompatible changes in minor releases. How much maintenance a project needs after it is "done" really depends on the tooling environment.

Re: We now consider Moment.js to be a legacy project in maintenance mode

#116

Post by mvc »

scoopertrooper wrote: post #106
jasonkester wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might benefit from flipping this around and asking yourself why you're not able to ship software that remains shipped without intervention. And why you can't even imagine a world where that would be possible. If you spend some time and effort removing whatever obstacles you have in place that are keeping you from being able to do that, you'll have a lot more free time to spend building new things. For what it's w…

So your projects have no dependencies? You just write everything from scratch? Your code is perfect the first time you write it? I'm utterly confused by this comment.

Usually when bringing in a library dependency, you don't use all features from the library. If the updates to some library relate to things you don't use, and the rest remains compatible, then why update?

Re: We now consider Moment.js to be a legacy project in maintenance mode

#117

Post by detaro »

scoopertrooper wrote: post #106
jasonkester wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might benefit from flipping this around and asking yourself why you're not able to ship software that remains shipped without intervention. And why you can't even imagine a world where that would be possible. If you spend some time and effort removing whatever obstacles you have in place that are keeping you from being able to do that, you'll have a lot more free time to spend building new things. For what it's w…

So your projects have no dependencies? You just write everything from scratch? Your code is perfect the first time you write it? I'm utterly confused by this comment.

Why do your dependencies break your project all the time that it needs updates itself?

Re: We now consider Moment.js to be a legacy project in maintenance mode

#118

Post by mschuster91 »

mvc wrote: post #116
scoopertrooper wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So your projects have no dependencies? You just write everything from scratch? Your code is perfect the first time you write it? I'm utterly confused by this comment.

Usually when bringing in a library dependency, you don't use all features from the library. If the updates to some library relate to things you don't use, and the rest remains compatible, then why update?

Because not every language / environment allows concurrent versions of a single library. PHP definitely does not, and for Java stuff IIRC you can only have one version of a library in one context of Tomcat/whatever application server you use.

Therefore you want to keep your code at least somewhat up to date so that people don't run into weird bugs.

Re: We now consider Moment.js to be a legacy project in maintenance mode

#119

Post by ssdspoimdsjvv »

jasonkester wrote: post #5

Good for them. Open Source seems to have an irrational fear of done . Done is good. Done should be the goal. But it’s not. Because if you’re not adding new features and pushing code changes every day, your project is abandoned , dead . To quote another thread from two minutes ago: “I’m quite sad to see the end of Moment.js” I wish the was a way to fix this attitude. So that project maintainers didn’t need to write tw…

Is software ever really done, as long as it's not perfect (and perfection does not exist)? In fact, even Moment.js is not done. They say they will keep releasing security fixes and time zone updates. What if at some point they decide they won't even do that?

I am wary to use software that is not maintained, because bugs won't get fixed, and new requirements that will eventually arise won't get taken up. And usually at that point a competitor rises up and releases a better product.

Re: We now consider Moment.js to be a legacy project in maintenance mode

#120

Post by CraigJPerry »

There can be a surprisingly looooooooooong tail for retired open source stuff.

I retired https://pypi.org/project/setuptools-pep8/ in 2013 but I still periodically check in on it since even today it gets 1.5k downloads per month https://pypistats.org/packages/setuptools-pep8

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