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We now consider Moment.js to be a legacy project in maintenance mode

momentjs.com

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Re: We now consider Moment.js to be a legacy project in maintenance mode

#91

Post by simongray »

5h wrote: post #86
bartread wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wish the was a way to fix this attitude. So that project maintainers didn’t need to write two page apologies for finishing their thing. One of the problems is that GitHub is full of OSS libraries where the last commit was three years or more ago and you have no idea (without forensically analysing commits, issues, etc.) whether it's because the project is done or because the maintainer(s) lost interest, had other…

Github having an objective "This isn't being worked on anymore" flag with a few options as to why, and pointers for where to reach a community for support/discussion would be most useful, especially overlaid on the crazy huge dependency graph frontend projects tend to acquire.

I think that is the point of the "archive" functionality: https://docs.github.com/en/github/creating-cloning-and-archi...

Re: We now consider Moment.js to be a legacy project in maintenance mode

#92

Post by jasonkester »

tutfbhuf wrote: post #72
bartread wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wish the was a way to fix this attitude. So that project maintainers didn’t need to write two page apologies for finishing their thing. One of the problems is that GitHub is full of OSS libraries where the last commit was three years or more ago and you have no idea (without forensically analysing commits, issues, etc.) whether it's because the project is done or because the maintainer(s) lost interest, had other…

> One of the problems is that GitHub is full of OSS libraries where the last commit was three years or more ago and you have no idea (without forensically analysing commits, issues, etc.) whether it's because the project is done or because the maintainer(s) lost interest, had other priorities, etc. I don't think there's any at least medium sized project that is considered to be done but not abandoned/legacy and does…

You might benefit from flipping this around and asking yourself why you're not able to ship software that remains shipped without intervention. And why you can't even imagine a world where that would be possible.

If you spend some time and effort removing whatever obstacles you have in place that are keeping you from being able to do that, you'll have a lot more free time to spend building new things.

For what it's worth, this world does in fact exist. And there are lots of us living in it. Here's hoping you find a way to join us!

Re: We now consider Moment.js to be a legacy project in maintenance mode

#93

Post by wruza »

tutfbhuf wrote: post #72
bartread wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wish the was a way to fix this attitude. So that project maintainers didn’t need to write two page apologies for finishing their thing. One of the problems is that GitHub is full of OSS libraries where the last commit was three years or more ago and you have no idea (without forensically analysing commits, issues, etc.) whether it's because the project is done or because the maintainer(s) lost interest, had other…

> One of the problems is that GitHub is full of OSS libraries where the last commit was three years or more ago and you have no idea (without forensically analysing commits, issues, etc.) whether it's because the project is done or because the maintainer(s) lost interest, had other priorities, etc. I don't think there's any at least medium sized project that is considered to be done but not abandoned/legacy and does…

>in order to not abandon it you have to maintain it: fix security issues, update outdated dependencies, update tooling so that you can still run/compile with non outdated tools and so on.

If you step back a little, you can see a "positive" feedback loop. The entire issue is that maintainers have to catch crazy rabbits who have no rest, change things and abandon "old" versions that worked but were not perfect. Perfect is the enemy of good.

Re: We now consider Moment.js to be a legacy project in maintenance mode

#94

Post by paxys »

jasonkester wrote: post #5

Good for them. Open Source seems to have an irrational fear of done . Done is good. Done should be the goal. But it’s not. Because if you’re not adding new features and pushing code changes every day, your project is abandoned , dead . To quote another thread from two minutes ago: “I’m quite sad to see the end of Moment.js” I wish the was a way to fix this attitude. So that project maintainers didn’t need to write tw…

That's a weird way to think about software. Every released version of every product is already "done". Once you take a dependency there is no obligation to keep updating it, no matter what features the maintainers may add to future versions.

In this case, considering the creators are discouraging people from using the package and explicitly saying there won't be future bug fixes, TZ/locale updates etc., it is pretty clear that done really means deprecated.

Re: We now consider Moment.js to be a legacy project in maintenance mode

#95

Post by jayflux »

codegladiator wrote: post #89
lazharichir wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really isn't "done" if you tell people they probably should look at alternatives instead. Sounds more like a soft deprecation to me. But regardless of semantics, they're being transparent on the project's status.

It "done" really, and I can use it today knowing its pros and cons. It would be "dead" if it had a glaring flaw which couldn't be fixed (which I don't think mutability is) Every project has cons and they should embrace it and call it out like this project did instead of forever targeting a perfect library but nothing is perfect. It serves its purpose. I am not sure if they are telling people not use it just because c…

> I am not sure if they are telling people not use it just because chrome now says to exclude it or they came up with it independently.

Independent. The maintainers have been recommending other alternatives (like Luxon) long before Chrome started to advise users on it. Moment has been in maintenance mode for a while now, this is just an updated confirmation of the fact, I'm guessing because users kept asking.

Re: We now consider Moment.js to be a legacy project in maintenance mode

#96

Post by gandutraveler »

I see that immutability is major concern for backward incompatibility, however over years I've become so much used to moment js that I wish I can still use their API's. Can someone explain why is it so hard to release a completely new version that isn't backward compatible? We could as well use different naming so that it doesn't conflict with last versions. moment3().now()

Re: We now consider Moment.js to be a legacy project in maintenance mode

#98

Post by JD557 »

tutfbhuf wrote: post #72
bartread wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wish the was a way to fix this attitude. So that project maintainers didn’t need to write two page apologies for finishing their thing. One of the problems is that GitHub is full of OSS libraries where the last commit was three years or more ago and you have no idea (without forensically analysing commits, issues, etc.) whether it's because the project is done or because the maintainer(s) lost interest, had other…

> One of the problems is that GitHub is full of OSS libraries where the last commit was three years or more ago and you have no idea (without forensically analysing commits, issues, etc.) whether it's because the project is done or because the maintainer(s) lost interest, had other priorities, etc. I don't think there's any at least medium sized project that is considered to be done but not abandoned/legacy and does…

>I don't think there's any at least medium sized project that is considered to be done but not abandoned/legacy and does not receive any commits.

As another commenter mentioned, this can be pretty common in math libs.

Here's an example: https://github.com/fommil/netlib-java

This project BLAS/LAPACK/ARPACK bindings for JVM languages. The repository is marked as archived and the owner explicitly states that the project is done. The last commit was 21 Jun 2017.

This project is still heavily used, there are still multiple libraries that use those bindings.

Re: We now consider Moment.js to be a legacy project in maintenance mode

#99

Post by truthwhisperer »

jasonkester wrote: post #5

Good for them. Open Source seems to have an irrational fear of done . Done is good. Done should be the goal. But it’s not. Because if you’re not adding new features and pushing code changes every day, your project is abandoned , dead . To quote another thread from two minutes ago: “I’m quite sad to see the end of Moment.js” I wish the was a way to fix this attitude. So that project maintainers didn’t need to write tw…

I believe this project was done when they posted the black lives matter banner. If you have time for this it means the bigger issues have been solved.

Let's take a moment to celebrate this project! Time flies, time matters

Re: We now consider Moment.js to be a legacy project in maintenance mode

#100

Post by uCantCauseUCant »

jasonkester wrote: post #5

Good for them. Open Source seems to have an irrational fear of done . Done is good. Done should be the goal. But it’s not. Because if you’re not adding new features and pushing code changes every day, your project is abandoned , dead . To quote another thread from two minutes ago: “I’m quite sad to see the end of Moment.js” I wish the was a way to fix this attitude. So that project maintainers didn’t need to write tw…

Code is a living thing- as is the ecosystem around it. Once its done- and the golemn-creator moves on, the project freezes in time, and over time breaks down.

maintenance is keeping the easy to fix fractures from happening, but even then..

If there is no human nearby - then old code is broken.

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