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At JPMorgan, productivity falls for younger employees at home

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Re: At JPMorgan, productivity falls for younger employees at home

#221
post #65
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't use Slack anymore but I think there is a feature to specify your working hours so it will not notify you outside of those hours.

I don't think the issue is technical, but cultural. If everybody else is available all the time, it's hard to do differently.

Now is a good time to broach the subject. Everyone working home, something needs to be done for the balance.

Re: At JPMorgan, productivity falls for younger employees at home

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can, for example, absolutely measure to the dollar the productivity of a plumber and you can easily compare two different plumbers I'm curious about this idea. What if plumber A shows up, quickly fixes something using existing, on-site materials, and ends up charging much less (no parts + 'quick' labor), and then the plumbing breaks again in X months. What if plumber B shows up, takes more time and replaces a p…

Doesn’t happen to the same degree as in software. With plumbing or painting, yes there are good jobs and bad jobs, but if the water gets to where it’s going and there’s no moisture, you’re pretty much done. If the paint is on the wall and not on the ceiling or the trim, and you can’t see roller marks, it’s a good job. With software, there seem to be endless layers of nuance between good or bad, finished or unfinished…

That is another distinction. All the example jobs do routine, repeatable things. Everything a programmer does is either novel or trivially replicable. There is no equivalent to "painting a room of certain size", to do that you use a copy of already existing painted room.

Re: At JPMorgan, productivity falls for younger employees at home

#223
post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The review process is a complete sham. It's a complete sham--up until the moment it's about to fire you. Yeah, I've been in the "Look, that deadline is HARD . If you don't figure out how to do something useful by it, the whole GROUP , including me and you, are fired. So, are you gonna figure something out or should I fire you now and get someone else?" That can wake you up, reeeaaaal quick. > Most managers will thi…

>"Look, that deadline is HARD. If you don't figure out how to do something useful by it, the whole GROUP, including me and you, are fired. So, are you gonna figure something out or should I fire you now and get someone else?" The only sane reply is: "You can't fire me, I quit". First of all, this working env is toxic. I don't need this kind of stress and I can freely quit because I have life savings, like any other s…

Your narcissism is showing.

Re: At JPMorgan, productivity falls for younger employees at home

#224

Never believe stories like this, measuring productivity is an impossible problem. Microsoft spend something in excess of 3 billion dollars trying to quantify productivity in the 90s and they couldn't do it. One of my college professors worked on this exact problem for the Army in the 80s, they created a formal domain specific language for quantifying employee productivity it took them 20 years and several hundred mil…

At Sun we experienced a new metrics fad every other year. Once they tried to use bug report clearance rate, so a friend said "I'm going to code myself a minivan" at a meeting. That metric didn't last. You have to have a great deal of sympathy for the management of software-heavy companies. They've no idea how to manage software development. Nobody really knows how to. It sucks. Oh, well, I suppose there is a way: min…

> "I'm going to code myself a minivan"

Could you explain this term? I thought i was a native English speaker but this has lost me.

Re: At JPMorgan, productivity falls for younger employees at home

#225
Going way out on a limb here, maybe productivity has dropped due to the overall stress of the situation, and not being at home? It doesn't seem like it's ever going to be possible to separate the noise from the signal here - everyone's experiencing an unprecedented in their lifetime event causing an immeasurable amount of extra stressors...

Re: At JPMorgan, productivity falls for younger employees at home

#226
I work from home and have done so for a couple of years. It all depends, like most stuff in life. It depends on the person working from home, their situation, what their job is etc.

It works great for me since I have a dedicated office at home which is larger than any office space I've had before. I can have this because I can live on the country side where housing is cheaper.

I can walk my dogs when I need to and I can focus a lot more here than I ever could in an open office. I have respect for people who claim they cannot and see no reason (except a pandemic) why people should always work from home. I can imagine why a 20-year old in his or her 20 square meter apartment isn't as productive as they would be at a big, bright office. For me, if I had to go to an office, I would have to leave my dogs in some dog care facility in the morning, stressing in my commute to work since I am forever a optimist when it comes to time. I wouldn't feel good, I would be tired and unable to focus. I have been there and done that. I know I am more productive at home.

I think it's nice to offer people the ability so that for the people who thrives in it (like me) can have the ability to work from home.

It has been hard, because the WFH mentality is either all or nothing. Why can't people and companies simply be a bit more laid back and offer both? The world isn't black and white, just let people decide for themselves since we are all grown ups.

I expect companies not to treat me as a child and so should you.

Re: At JPMorgan, productivity falls for younger employees at home

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At Sun we experienced a new metrics fad every other year. Once they tried to use bug report clearance rate, so a friend said "I'm going to code myself a minivan" at a meeting. That metric didn't last. You have to have a great deal of sympathy for the management of software-heavy companies. They've no idea how to manage software development. Nobody really knows how to. It sucks. Oh, well, I suppose there is a way: min…

> "I'm going to code myself a minivan" Could you explain this term? I thought i was a native English speaker but this has lost me.

"I'm going to get myself a large bonus by clearing many bugs".

The Dilbert strip has the additional suggestion that the programmer could introduce bugs in order to clear them, in an example of the Cobra Effect.

Re: At JPMorgan, productivity falls for younger employees at home

#229
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Productivity in this case is fairly simple to calculate = Cost/Duration. You can factor in the time (presumably that’s paid for so you should have a real number) and cost of materials (On-site use historical or replacement cost) yourself. Your points holds more generally though, especially when there aren’t clear prices paid.

That isn't productivity, productivity is value/duration.

Define value. Now that's a rabbit hole. Marxist definition? Ricardian?

Re: At JPMorgan, productivity falls for younger employees at home

#230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can, for example, absolutely measure to the dollar the productivity of a plumber and you can easily compare two different plumbers I'm curious about this idea. What if plumber A shows up, quickly fixes something using existing, on-site materials, and ends up charging much less (no parts + 'quick' labor), and then the plumbing breaks again in X months. What if plumber B shows up, takes more time and replaces a p…

Quality is the conformance to requirements. If you (the client) wanted a quick and cheap solution then A is for you. If you wanted a robust and you are willing to pay the premium to get the B, you're in luck! Mega big banks in the USA suffer from tech debt A LOT. The number one reason for operation disruptions is software errors, and with a large difference to reasons 2-3-4. An additional point could be that large US…

You are conflating very different issues. So yes, it does come across as a rant.

My perspective, as someone who worked for JPMorgan in technology for 8 years, and for several other banks, is that JPMorgan is way above most other banks in the quality of their systems and their dev teams.

Likewise the top management. Jamie Dimon is very impressive. You don't get to stay CEO of a bank with 250,000 employees for more than 20 years without being seriously good at it, very consistently.

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