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At JPMorgan, productivity falls for younger employees at home

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Re: At JPMorgan, productivity falls for younger employees at home

#61
Ramping employees new to the workforce is probably best done in person over the course of several months. There are so many things that someone new can spin their wheels on for hours that you can solve immediately.

Younger employees won’t be getting the full support they need.

Re: At JPMorgan, productivity falls for younger employees at home

#62
post #2

Dimon kind of throws them under the bus, doesn't he: "Work output by younger employees was particularly affected on Mondays and Fridays, according to findings discussed by Chief Executive Office Jamie Dimon in a private meeting with Keefe, Bruyette & Woods analysts. That, along with worries that remote work is no substitute for organic interaction, are part of why the biggest U.S. bank is urging more workers to retur…

What kind of work are these junior employees doing that is this highly measurable?

They are almost all proxy metrics of course. For engineering you can look at commits, PRs, incidents, deployments, etc and most of those metrics actually improved quite dramatically the first few months after everyone worked from home. Many of the offices are hot-desked high capacity environments and I cannot get anything done in them, so the initial reports were completely unsurprising.

I can't speak to what is being said now as I'm not really tracking any of it. I don't believe it's pure bullshit. It could be that people are just picking up bad habits. It could be stress and distractions from all the stuff that's swirling around now. It could be an exaggerated stance to signal to real estate in the affected markets that JPMC isn't packing up and getting out of town. Who knows. I will say that the technical infrastructure has been very good, due in part to long term investments in remote infrastructure for years now and it's pretty seamless switching from the office to remote.

I personally will quit before I go back full time to the chaos of high capacity office environments. I'm not built for it.

Re: At JPMorgan, productivity falls for younger employees at home

#63

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I honestly can't wait to get back to the office (or any other workspace that isn't my home). I really hate working at home. I don't have enough space or privacy, it becomes far more difficult to partition work and play when they occur in the same spaces / I find myself distracted more easily, and there is no one to socialize with when I'm sitting by myself every day. Could I reme…

> I really hate working at home. I don't have enough space or privacy, it

I really my office, I don't have enough space or privacy, or even a window. At home I have a spacious desk with wide windows.

It's almost as if the problem is not office vs home but comfortable space vs shithole.

Re: At JPMorgan, productivity falls for younger employees at home

#64

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I honestly can't wait to get back to the office (or any other workspace that isn't my home). I really hate working at home. I don't have enough space or privacy, it becomes far more difficult to partition work and play when they occur in the same spaces / I find myself distracted more easily, and there is no one to socialize with when I'm sitting by myself every day. Could I reme…

> Could I remedy all of these problems with extra effort? Sure, but it's far easier for me to simply go to the office. This, exactly this. People adverse to self discipline are the ones that most want to go into the office, because its "the easy way". But people with discipline should have always, and should continue to be given the choice to work in the way that suits them the best, if you will, that is "easiest" fo…

Wow relax...All I said was I prefer working in an office setting; I didn't say you had to come back to the office. If you prefer working from home then you should work from home.

> Diversity folks, or if you will, different strokes for different folks.

I agree but it sure sounds like you don't based on what you said a few sentences earlier.

Re: At JPMorgan, productivity falls for younger employees at home

#65
post #46
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you sign off from slack when you finish working for the day? That should be step one for getting a balance.

I don't use Slack anymore but I think there is a feature to specify your working hours so it will not notify you outside of those hours.

I don't think the issue is technical, but cultural. If everybody else is available all the time, it's hard to do differently.

Re: At JPMorgan, productivity falls for younger employees at home

#66

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I honestly can't wait to get back to the office (or any other workspace that isn't my home). I really hate working at home. I don't have enough space or privacy, it becomes far more difficult to partition work and play when they occur in the same spaces / I find myself distracted more easily, and there is no one to socialize with when I'm sitting by myself every day. Could I reme…

> Could I remedy all of these problems with extra effort? Sure, but it's far easier for me to simply go to the office. This, exactly this. People adverse to self discipline are the ones that most want to go into the office, because its "the easy way". But people with discipline should have always, and should continue to be given the choice to work in the way that suits them the best, if you will, that is "easiest" fo…

>This, exactly this. People adverse to self discipline are the ones that most want to go into the office, because its "the easy way". But people with discipline should have always, and should continue to be given the choice to work in the way that suits them the best, if you will, that is "easiest" for them. Don't try and make me come into the office too when the things that happen at the office

So basically "people who prefer what you don't prefer are lesser in some way" but with some extra words for obfuscation because you can't just come out sand say that in polite conversation?

People have preferences. If you're gonna try and pretend that one is universally better or superior then I hope that attitude causes big problems for you.

Re: At JPMorgan, productivity falls for younger employees at home

#67
post #56
post #15

Younger employees probably have less space. Apartment/house shares, etc. I've known some who are working on their bed. This isn't healthy nor is it likely to be conducive to productivity.

Not to minimize the struggles of suburban parents, but I do feel they might be divorced from what single urban life is like right now. As a "younger" (30 year old) tech employee, in addition to living in a cramped space with 3 roommates in SF with no privacy, I have to work in a dining room because my bedroom has very thin walls. I also have to do cook and clean way more often, when I previously used to get 3 meals a…

Have you thought about relocating from SF?

Most of my friends, including myself, have taken advantage of the current WFH situation to find much better accommodations for themselves outside of SF.

Obviously not an option for everyone, but for those that have it I would definitely pursue it.

Re: At JPMorgan, productivity falls for younger employees at home

#68
post #35

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I honestly can't wait to get back to the office (or any other workspace that isn't my home). I really hate working at home. I don't have enough space or privacy, it becomes far more difficult to partition work and play when they occur in the same spaces / I find myself distracted more easily, and there is no one to socialize with when I'm sitting by myself every day. Could I reme…

I've officially reached zero productivity today. I'm sick of being stuck in my tiny condo with the noise from neighbors and zero work/life balance. The constant streams of asks on Slack that wake me up in the morning and keep me up at night. I'm making more in the stock market than my job.

serious question how much do devs like you make? what is "you" ? 5 YOE staff engg at FAANMAG?

Re: At JPMorgan, productivity falls for younger employees at home

#69
post #43

I’m inclined to believe he’s afraid of change and is abusing his power to push his feelings-based agenda. To me, this goes one of two ways. One, he loses a huge swath of young workers that apply to different companies instead and his company folds. Two, he still loses a huge swath of young workers who don’t apply but his feelings turn out to be true and the company comes out stronger. Either way, we won’t know until…

You seem to be operating under the assumption that all young employees want to work from home. I'm a young person who can't wait to go back to the office, and I know I'm not the only one. WFH is a much better setup for people who have two kids and a dog, not single people in small studio apartments.

[deleted]

Re: At JPMorgan, productivity falls for younger employees at home

#70
post #56
post #15

Younger employees probably have less space. Apartment/house shares, etc. I've known some who are working on their bed. This isn't healthy nor is it likely to be conducive to productivity.

Not to minimize the struggles of suburban parents, but I do feel they might be divorced from what single urban life is like right now. As a "younger" (30 year old) tech employee, in addition to living in a cramped space with 3 roommates in SF with no privacy, I have to work in a dining room because my bedroom has very thin walls. I also have to do cook and clean way more often, when I previously used to get 3 meals a…

how much is your salary for you to be on that living arrangement? sounds awful when 250K/year in SF can't buy any decent living space.
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