no shit sherlock
Feds: IBM did discriminate against older workers in making layoffs
101–110 of 200 posts
Re: Feds: IBM did discriminate against older workers in making layoffs
#102A fellow older classmate of mine and I were looking for work after changing careers. We were talking about his recent interview when he got a call from the recruiter and put her on speakerphone. She told them they were going with someone else because they thought the other person "fit the culture" better. He asked if she could give some feedback on what that meant and she flat out said "Some people thought you were t…
This is the thing that confuses me a little, fresh blood is important too but having people who've gone round the block a few times (especially somewhere else) can be very helpful even just as a second pair of eyes.
Re: Feds: IBM did discriminate against older workers in making layoffs
#103Could add "... to the surprise of absolutely no one." to that headline :-). Blekko was acquired by IBM, and as a result I worked there for 18 months as we transitioned from company to being part of IBM. That they were trying to aggressively move the "old guard" out was not much of a secret. In their particular case I actually felt some sympathy for them because, as a 100+ year old company, a lot of long time veterans…
> But this person was so comfortable and confident in the 'enterprise data center' concepts that died with Digital Equipment and Sun Microsystems they just couldn't wrap their heads around it.
It doesn't help that IBM business leadership signs off on core IBM Cloud product/service attributes that are essentially old-style IBM remote enterprise data center contracts dressed up in new marketing language. Sign up with a variety of IBM cloud products, and you'll find some still have planned outages. In fact, the IBMid infrastructure sometimes still experiences outages. The notion of a "dial-tone service" is recognized by the IBM Cloud organization as necessary to compete, but that consistent lack across the board is one of many reasons they're a distant runner-up in cloud providers.
Re: Feds: IBM did discriminate against older workers in making layoffs
#104Re: Feds: IBM did discriminate against older workers in making layoffs
#105The big tech giants have used this marketing ploy that "older workers don't understand new tech" to undercut them at almost every opportunity. I honestly have no idea why they are allowed to get away with this in the media and public opinion. Maybe because older people don't know new tech, so they think older programmers don't know it either? It's insane to me that an older programmer with decades of experience and m…
I think you are spot on. I run a medium sized IT Team (400 employees plus 600 external contractors) and I like to go against the grain: In the past 12 months I have hired 15 people, and 13 are over 52 years old. Most have been laid off, got a juicy check that translates into a good nest egg, but not enough to make it their only source of income until retirement. A good job with a steady (but lower than before) income…
Yep, my experience is also good with programmers over 50; usually (because of the ageist market) very humble but they understand things just faster. I myself am approaching 50 and I know more and am quicker (which surprises me) than I was when I was 25 (but maybe I was just really slow). I found a 55 year old firmware developer who is simply better (fast arm assembly/c dev shipping with no p1 bugs; this is not stuff you can update once shipped) than anyone I ever met; he was fired from his job a bit into covid and no-one wanted to hire him. It is strange. Even if he retires in 10 years, or worse, young people leave faster for a few bucks/hr more...
Re: Feds: IBM did discriminate against older workers in making layoffs
#106The big tech giants have used this marketing ploy that "older workers don't understand new tech" to undercut them at almost every opportunity. I honestly have no idea why they are allowed to get away with this in the media and public opinion. Maybe because older people don't know new tech, so they think older programmers don't know it either? It's insane to me that an older programmer with decades of experience and m…
I think you are spot on. I run a medium sized IT Team (400 employees plus 600 external contractors) and I like to go against the grain: In the past 12 months I have hired 15 people, and 13 are over 52 years old. Most have been laid off, got a juicy check that translates into a good nest egg, but not enough to make it their only source of income until retirement. A good job with a steady (but lower than before) income…
Two things surprised me here:
1. What does HR know about running an agile IT department? Why would they second-guess your decision on who to hire?
2. One of HR's biggest responsibilities is to protect the company from lawsuits. If HR itself has a bias against older employees, that would indicate that they're not even qualified to perform their own job, let alone tell the IT department how to do theirs.
Re: Feds: IBM did discriminate against older workers in making layoffs
#107The penalty for IBM: "the Commission now invites Respondent to join with it in an effort toward a just resolution of this matter" and
"If you decline to enter into conciliation discussions, or when the Commission’s representative is unable to secure an acceptable conciliation agreement, the Director shall so inform the parties,advising them of the court enforcement alternatives available to aggrieved persons and the Commission."
Basically, not even a slap on the wrist.
Re: Feds: IBM did discriminate against older workers in making layoffs
#108Leetcode is veiled ageism where those who pass have inordinate amounts of free time to study nonsense
I think the decision on whether or not a company chooses to have a presence in urban centers vs suburban office parks reflects the age of people they want to hire (or have currently hired). Office location/style choice can be a subtle way to implement ageism one way or the other.
Re: Feds: IBM did discriminate against older workers in making layoffs
#109Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you are spot on. I run a medium sized IT Team (400 employees plus 600 external contractors) and I like to go against the grain: In the past 12 months I have hired 15 people, and 13 are over 52 years old. Most have been laid off, got a juicy check that translates into a good nest egg, but not enough to make it their only source of income until retirement. A good job with a steady (but lower than before) income…
Yep, my experience is also good with programmers over 50; usually (because of the ageist market) very humble but they understand things just faster. I myself am approaching 50 and I know more and am quicker (which surprises me) than I was when I was 25 (but maybe I was just really slow). I found a 55 year old firmware developer who is simply better (fast arm assembly/c dev shipping with no p1 bugs; this is not stuff…
> I know more and am quicker (which surprises me) than I was when I was 25 (but maybe I was just really slow).
I think the difference isn't raw speed, it's efficiency.
I know every year I'm better able to stop before I go down too far on the wrong path to solving some problem, because I learned many times in previous projects how that type of solution would end up hurting me in the end.
So less time spent on fruitless efforts, more time spent on fruitful efforts, and in the end usually a better, more maintainable solution, to boot!
Re: Feds: IBM did discriminate against older workers in making layoffs
#110I've seen it spun as a move away from the legacy stack into the new modern architecture. Of course the legacy stack programmers have a suspicious common element. Also, of course, 2-3-5 years later the legacy stack is still what keeps the business running while all the new shiny toys have come and gone. I had a boss who came over, asked me what was working on and then looked me in the eye and said, firmly and delibera…
It is incredibly unfair to associate older people with legacy stack. Many older people are actually contributors and work on defining and implementing newer (modern) architecture like containerization and automation solutions. I think often younger developers and engineers are often taught on old paradigms and solutions, and then often get out into a position to ignore modern solutions and get vendor kickbacks to maintain long-term contracts utilizing antiquated solutions.