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Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

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Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#51

Post by blueterminal »

skummetmaelk wrote: post #46
blueterminal wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These apps are absolutely addictive because they were explicitly and intentionally designed to be. Same goes with fast food, TV shows etc. It's your responsibility to not over-consume anything; and if you have children, teach them to not do that as well. The problem is not with FB, Google etc. The problem (which is over-consumption of everything) is cultural. Blaming some specific corporations is easy but it won't…

Good old personal responsibility. It's your responsibility not to walk into traps laid out to catch you. Why stop people from laying out the traps? They're just trying to make a living, it's perfectly fine!

What do you propose to solve this problem besides teaching others to take personal responsibility?

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#52

Post by friendlybus »

x87678r wrote: post #41
nip180 wrote: post #31

It was very ironic that Netflix, who once said that sleep is there biggest competition, releases a documentary about how it’s rivals in the attention economy are harmful. Yes, Netflix doesn’t advertise directly to me, but many of the effects are still present. The way I think and behave can be changed by programming I watch on Netflix. Netflix uses a recommendation engine to keep me engaged. Netflix has implemented s…

Agreed, I'm starting to think the Internet is becoming a net negative in people's lives. Maybe if everyone reverted to 2G speeds for a few basic tasks and we can leave SocialMedia/Games/Video behind.

You can make real friends in games.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#53

Post by motohagiography »

newscracker wrote: post #8

Though there was hardly anything that I didn't already know , I liked the movie very much for its presentation that drove the point well to people who may not have understood how these platforms work, the privacy implications and the dangers therein. I've already recommended this movie to some more people. As for the cultural impact of the movie, I don't think it's going to be much. Cambridge Analytica had so much ne…

While many of us (technologists) were unsurprised, is there any reaction from friends and relatives who say, "wait, you knew about this and you didn't say anything?"

This doc is way less dramatic, but when the Snowden leaks happened I responded to people with, "what parts of this could I have told you about that you would have believed if you hadn't seen it in the news?" Reality is, most people are more afraid of being thought of as an outsider than any conceivable consequence that befalls their perceived in-group.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#54

Post by otachack »

blueterminal wrote: post #36
save_ferris wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fact that people spend lots of time on social media just demonstrates that they derive something from it, not that it’s addictive or harmful. I was totally with you until this moment. This is like arguing that people with alcoholism get something out of drinking too much. It’s one thing to say that you’re comfortable with the amount of information that’s collected about you and how it’s used, but how can you ig…

> These apps are absolutely addictive because they were explicitly and intentionally designed to be. Same goes with fast food, TV shows etc. It's your responsibility to not over-consume anything; and if you have children, teach them to not do that as well. The problem is not with FB, Google etc. The problem (which is over-consumption of everything) is cultural. Blaming some specific corporations is easy but it won't…

One of the main issues is regulation. With TV, government was able to regulate the content via FCC. The movie's example to this was Saturday morning cartoons compared to YouTube for Kids. The latter is very much self regulated by Google/YT and parents, rather than government which, given history, has the actual power to curb it. Giving the keys of regulation to the target of it is not the way to get it done. YT in this example will set the main goal to driving their product to further profit over content regulating one way or the other.

I definitely understand your argument of "leave it to the parents" but why add to their ever growing pile of worries? What if they don't know any better b/c of technical illiteracy? This issue of an unregulated media line has been seen and dealt with before yet we're hesitant in doing anything about it.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#55

Post by aimindcontrol »

I'm actually worried about the similar issues with Google search results at the moment.

2 examples.

1) The new suggested answers on search results. As an example search for "is salt bad for you". The top results might be correct though I've seen other searched that I believe aren't (different searches). Under that is this new "People Also Ask" section listing all kinds of questions, each with a single answer. AFAIK the answers are just whatever Google's algorithms decided are the most popular. Given there is one answer for each question (and the one answer to the original search at the top), it all comes across as authoritative answers. I think if you try various search terms you'll quickly find lots of examples you vehemently disagree with the answers google is presenting.

I don't know why the previous style of results felt better but something about the previous style (the style below the "People Also Ask" section came across as "here's semi random answers from unknown sources so be aware" where as to me at least, the new top answers above that all come across as authoritative and that scares the crap out of me.

2) Basically the same issue but if you search for " in " google will give you one answer and in this case they will often claim "Community Verified" yet they are often flat wrong. Often the phrase is ambiguous so there can be no "one true answer" without more context and yet google presents the results as "this is the one true answer because it's community verified". This basically proves my point for #1 above. That fact that google shows these questions with just one answer seems like pure thought manipulation.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#56

Post by jmnicolas »

nikivi wrote: post #2

I personally never understood the value of ads. I subconsciously turn off my brain and press skip whenever I encounter any kind of ad because I know it was made to influence me into doing an action (and I don't want to waste any mental energy in evaluating whether I am being tricked or not). And most ads are bad: https://twitter.com/JonErlichman/status/1304793136494006272 So to me the whole thing simply doesn't make…

I'm exactly like you, but I think your comment won't find an echo here where most people "need" ads to promote their businesses.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#57

Post by blueterminal »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #50
blueterminal wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These apps are absolutely addictive because they were explicitly and intentionally designed to be. Same goes with fast food, TV shows etc. It's your responsibility to not over-consume anything; and if you have children, teach them to not do that as well. The problem is not with FB, Google etc. The problem (which is over-consumption of everything) is cultural. Blaming some specific corporations is easy but it won't…

This is like arguing that the fast food industries, the sugar industry, and the ad industries have no role to play in diabetes because it's your fault you can't control yourself. Never mind that you will have been exposed to tens of thousands of hours of literal behaviour modification programming. You should somehow magically still have the personal, emotional, and cultural resources to override it. And if you don't…

How would you try to help an alcoholic? Would you tell him that it's alcohol producers' who is at fault? Or would you tell him to try and get help? Why would an advice be different for over-consumption of social media, coke, big macs, tv shows, casinos etc.?

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#58

Post by messo »

newscracker wrote: post #8

Though there was hardly anything that I didn't already know , I liked the movie very much for its presentation that drove the point well to people who may not have understood how these platforms work, the privacy implications and the dangers therein. I've already recommended this movie to some more people. As for the cultural impact of the movie, I don't think it's going to be much. Cambridge Analytica had so much ne…

> Don't tell me that Mastodon and Mastodon clones can be replacements for Twitter, Facebook, Facebook groups, Facebook events, Instagram, Snapchat, TikTok, etc.

It has been for me. But I am very aware that the fediverse is far from ready to capture the large masses currently using all the regular social networks. And that's fine, if the fediverse were growing at the same rate as VC-funded, growth-hacked social media platforms, that would worry me greatly. It takes time to build tools and communities that is made by and for the users of said tools.

I find Mastodon to be a much better experience to use both on the web and on the apps available for my Android phone, than Twitter. I have tried to use Twitter again a few times the last years, but it's not the same anymore. I used to be an active Twitter user. I prefer being a part of my Norwegian mastodon instance, in addition to one of the larger English-speaking instances.

> Where are the nice(r) mobile apps (not just some website designed for desktops) for any replacements?

I use Tusky (https://tusky.app/), but there are several other really nice apps to choose from. On my laptop I use Tootle (https://github.com/bleakgrey/tootle).

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#59

Post by II2II »

blueterminal wrote: post #36
save_ferris wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fact that people spend lots of time on social media just demonstrates that they derive something from it, not that it’s addictive or harmful. I was totally with you until this moment. This is like arguing that people with alcoholism get something out of drinking too much. It’s one thing to say that you’re comfortable with the amount of information that’s collected about you and how it’s used, but how can you ig…

> These apps are absolutely addictive because they were explicitly and intentionally designed to be. Same goes with fast food, TV shows etc. It's your responsibility to not over-consume anything; and if you have children, teach them to not do that as well. The problem is not with FB, Google etc. The problem (which is over-consumption of everything) is cultural. Blaming some specific corporations is easy but it won't…

One way of promoting personal responsibility is to make people aware of a problem. Some people may be able to figure it out on their own, others find out from someone close to them, yet others will learn of it from other sources (such as documentaries).

That being said, I believe that social responsibility also has to play a role. If companies were simply interested in making a product appealing, they would look at how well it is received. When companies start employing psychology, there is a strong possibility that they are doing so to override people's judgment (thus their ability to take personal responsibility).

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