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Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

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Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#41

Post by x87678r »

nip180 wrote: post #31

It was very ironic that Netflix, who once said that sleep is there biggest competition, releases a documentary about how it’s rivals in the attention economy are harmful. Yes, Netflix doesn’t advertise directly to me, but many of the effects are still present. The way I think and behave can be changed by programming I watch on Netflix. Netflix uses a recommendation engine to keep me engaged. Netflix has implemented s…

Agreed, I'm starting to think the Internet is becoming a net negative in people's lives. Maybe if everyone reverted to 2G speeds for a few basic tasks and we can leave SocialMedia/Games/Video behind.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#42

Post by 082349872349872 »

mooreslaw wrote: post #29

I was surprised that given where the movie went, there seemed to be little discussion of the idea of banning personalized advertising. While it would be difficult to stomach for the companies who've thrived on that business model, the social consequences and business incentives of personalized advertising are corroding our society.

Read Bernays (or the Creel Report if you can find it) for an account of how personalised advertising and manual social graph exploitation worked about a century ago.

Of course, back then, they targeted with much less data. For comparisons from half a century ago to now, consider https://opendatacity.github.io/stasi-vs-nsa/english.html .

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#43

Post by x87678r »

Honestly I dont think most people care about privacy or advertising. For me my biggest argument about SM (incl HN) is the sheer amount of time it sucks for very little long term benefit. I complain I dont have time to visit friends or do exercise but somehow I manage to spend way too my time on my phone, and that even is without Facebook or Twitter.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#44

Post by clircle »

I was somewhat disappointed that the movie didn't much discuss the downsides of regulating social media, e.g. censorship, slippery slopes. like other commenters say, I didn't learn anything new, but I'm glad this kind of documentary is out in the open for non-technies to watch and consider.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#45

Post by save_ferris »

alexmingoia wrote: post #34
save_ferris wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fact that people spend lots of time on social media just demonstrates that they derive something from it, not that it’s addictive or harmful. I was totally with you until this moment. This is like arguing that people with alcoholism get something out of drinking too much. It’s one thing to say that you’re comfortable with the amount of information that’s collected about you and how it’s used, but how can you ig…

I spend lots of time reading. Is reading an addiction? I don’t think spending time on something is necessarily an addiction. Can social media be an addiction? Sure, in the same way videgames can be an addiction. I wouldn’t go as far as saying video games are harmful. Social media is also different in that it’s a means of communication. It does have utility for communicating whereas video games or drinking doesn’t.

It’s not about how you consciously choose to spend your time, it’s about being able to choose when to stop.

I commonly hear from alcoholics that the problem isn’t that they want 1 drink, the problem is that they want 10 drinks. They lack the ability to moderate consumption and be able to consciously stop.

Social media struggles from this exact same problem. It’s so easy to just keep scrolling, to just keep seeing what’s further down the feed. Maybe I missed a picture that I would like, or something. This FOMO is intentionally designed and baked into the apps to keep people from leaving them.

You can choose to put down the book whenever you want to or need to, and maybe you don’t have a problem putting down social media either. But many, many people do. Just because you don’t feel psychologically pulled in doesn’t mean that it’s not a real addiction.

There’s an easy way to test this out on yourself. Commit to going a whole day without checking your favorite social media apps and add the parental control time limit to those apps. If you find yourself unconsciously whipping out your phone and checking social media, you’ll see the prompt to input your parental control code. If you’re anywhere near the statistical average human, you’re gonna find yourself mindlessly checking social media multiple times that day. That’s what I’m talking about.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#46

Post by skummetmaelk »

blueterminal wrote: post #36
save_ferris wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fact that people spend lots of time on social media just demonstrates that they derive something from it, not that it’s addictive or harmful. I was totally with you until this moment. This is like arguing that people with alcoholism get something out of drinking too much. It’s one thing to say that you’re comfortable with the amount of information that’s collected about you and how it’s used, but how can you ig…

> These apps are absolutely addictive because they were explicitly and intentionally designed to be. Same goes with fast food, TV shows etc. It's your responsibility to not over-consume anything; and if you have children, teach them to not do that as well. The problem is not with FB, Google etc. The problem (which is over-consumption of everything) is cultural. Blaming some specific corporations is easy but it won't…

Good old personal responsibility. It's your responsibility not to walk into traps laid out to catch you.

Why stop people from laying out the traps? They're just trying to make a living, it's perfectly fine!

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#47

Post by messo »

alexmingoia wrote: post #34
save_ferris wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fact that people spend lots of time on social media just demonstrates that they derive something from it, not that it’s addictive or harmful. I was totally with you until this moment. This is like arguing that people with alcoholism get something out of drinking too much. It’s one thing to say that you’re comfortable with the amount of information that’s collected about you and how it’s used, but how can you ig…

I spend lots of time reading. Is reading an addiction? I don’t think spending time on something is necessarily an addiction. Can social media be an addiction? Sure, in the same way videgames can be an addiction. I wouldn’t go as far as saying video games are harmful. Social media is also different in that it’s a means of communication. It does have utility for communicating whereas video games or drinking doesn’t.

> I spend lots of time reading. Is reading an addiction? I don’t think spending time on something is necessarily an addiction.

Anything can become addictive, really, if we use ASAM's official definition: «People with addiction use substances or engage in behaviors that become compulsive and often continue despite harmful consequences.»

The difference between books and feed-scrolling is stark. Books are linear, static and finite, while your feed is ever-changing and adapting to your patterns of behavior – and practically infinite. These differences are huge when it comes to the potential for "continued used despite harmful consequences".

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#49

Post by neves »

alxmng wrote: post #28

I think what I think about docudramas in general: Hyperbolic. I think the harms of social media are exaggerated, and not entirely unique to social media. I don’t have a problem with Facebook knowing what content I interact with and using that to serve me ads, or content that I want to spend time consuming. I don’t agree with the characterization of publishing or volunteering information (likes, posting photos, profil…

The harms of social media are understated. I live in Brazil. Social media was one of the main reasons of the election of our president, Bolsonaro. Now we have more than 130.000 deaths from coronavirus, the Amazon and Pantanal are burning, our institutions are crumbling. My fellow software developers aren't just make some far way teenagers depressed. This is is real harm in the real world.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#50

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

blueterminal wrote: post #36
save_ferris wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fact that people spend lots of time on social media just demonstrates that they derive something from it, not that it’s addictive or harmful. I was totally with you until this moment. This is like arguing that people with alcoholism get something out of drinking too much. It’s one thing to say that you’re comfortable with the amount of information that’s collected about you and how it’s used, but how can you ig…

> These apps are absolutely addictive because they were explicitly and intentionally designed to be. Same goes with fast food, TV shows etc. It's your responsibility to not over-consume anything; and if you have children, teach them to not do that as well. The problem is not with FB, Google etc. The problem (which is over-consumption of everything) is cultural. Blaming some specific corporations is easy but it won't…

This is like arguing that the fast food industries, the sugar industry, and the ad industries have no role to play in diabetes because it's your fault you can't control yourself.

Never mind that you will have been exposed to tens of thousands of hours of literal behaviour modification programming. You should somehow magically still have the personal, emotional, and cultural resources to override it. And if you don't - it's your fault.

But curiously it's not the fault of the corporations, because there is no equivalent requirement on them to control themselves, or to take corporate-personal responsibility for the consequences of their actions.

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