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Oil Companies Touted Recycling to Sell More Plastic

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Re: Oil Companies Touted Recycling to Sell More Plastic

#231

Post by LargoLasskhyfv »

Ma8ee wrote: post #229
LargoLasskhyfv wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not where I live, at least not for glass. I can see down into them from above and it all goes into the same bin. No separation at all.

Which doesn’t make sense, since glass is relatively easy and economical to recycle. (I’m not saying what you say is untrue, there’s a lot of things in the world that doesn’t make sense.)

I know. Just wanted to say: "I can confirm this so called urban myth."

It's not that I'd been that interested in it, just read about it, and looked into it afterwards. And it happens. Again and again.

Re: Oil Companies Touted Recycling to Sell More Plastic

#232

Post by rogerb »

pessimizer wrote: post #122
rogerb wrote: post #86

I'd love to see a class action lawsuit keeping the people who lied accountable for the amount of additional waste in effort, resources that are used to separate and collect these separate streams. Stuff like this (h/t @neltnerb): >>In almost all locations, PLA, "compostable plastic" (often labeled number 7 or 0 for marketing) is not only not recyclable but actively contaminates compost and recycling plants. I see all…

> I'd love to see a class action lawsuit keeping the people who lied accountable for the amount of additional waste in effort, resources that are used to separate and collect these separate streams. The minuscule punishment that can be visited on the people involved in things like this won't clean up a molecule of the damage done, and won't be a deterrent for people who would do it in future (or who are doing similar…

Its (obviously) not about the renumeration of any individual, but about accountability of the source. There are several examples - Tabacco, Asbestos, Bopal, Oil, Medication, ... where billions of dollars of fines assessed against the sources, not exactly small numbers.

Re: Oil Companies Touted Recycling to Sell More Plastic

#233

Post by maxerickson »

hosh wrote: post #156
regularfry wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends if fully reclaiming it as plastic is the goal. That's the current model, but there are other routes available. Two options that don't quite work yet (but have moderately promising potential) are either to break the plastic down to useful precursors with enzymes, or pyrolise it down to biochar. To my knowledge, the enzyme approach has shown a modicum of promise in labs but is still impractical, while making…

Huh, I've always considered organics as biochar inputs. Thanks for pointing out that plastics can be used that way. Have you seen any work done about addressing release of toxins when burning plastic?

It's obviously not biochar though. It might be similarly useful, but the bio in bio char is about the material coming from plants.

Re: Oil Companies Touted Recycling to Sell More Plastic

#234

Post by neltnerb »

LargoLasskhyfv wrote: post #224
neltnerb wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Metal and plastic are super easy to separate by density or by electrical conductivity. Batteries are considered hazardous waste and have to be disposed of separately, similarly for old electronics or CFL bulbs that contain mercury. But commingled recycling was one of the most predictably stupid moves in the area of environmentalism I've seen in a long time (well, prior to 2016 anyway), when I heard my city was moving…

Batteries are hazardous! You can take an empty AA-cell and drive a nail with a hammer through the middle from the side. It makes buzzing and popping sounds, and there are blue-white arcs/tendrils all over it and the nail for maybe half a minute. Like crazy CGI in a movie! And it STINKS! That is for non-rechargables. Haven't tried that with rechargables.

They are worse, lithium batteries tend to explode or catch fire. Cool description, I've never noticed these tendrils you describe.

Re: Oil Companies Touted Recycling to Sell More Plastic

#235

Post by LargoLasskhyfv »

neltnerb wrote: post #234
LargoLasskhyfv wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Batteries are hazardous! You can take an empty AA-cell and drive a nail with a hammer through the middle from the side. It makes buzzing and popping sounds, and there are blue-white arcs/tendrils all over it and the nail for maybe half a minute. Like crazy CGI in a movie! And it STINKS! That is for non-rechargables. Haven't tried that with rechargables.

They are worse, lithium batteries tend to explode or catch fire. Cool description, I've never noticed these tendrils you describe.

I couldn't believe it either! Don't know if it were alakaline or something else anymore. I'm using rechargable Eneloops now, where possible. Honestly I can't remember anymore what has driven me to do that? Maybe frustration because empty so fast?

Re: Oil Companies Touted Recycling to Sell More Plastic

#236

Post by neltnerb »

LargoLasskhyfv wrote: post #235
neltnerb wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are worse, lithium batteries tend to explode or catch fire. Cool description, I've never noticed these tendrils you describe.

I couldn't believe it either! Don't know if it were alakaline or something else anymore. I'm using rechargable Eneloops now, where possible. Honestly I can't remember anymore what has driven me to do that? Maybe frustration because empty so fast?

Awesome. They seem like a good choice, only a little lower capacity than alkaline and seem to hold capacity well. Much better than those old NiCd batteries.

The main downside is that the NiMH chemistry is 1.2V instead of 1.5V like alkaline. Same kind of issue as with the older NiCd batteries where they just didn't seem to put out as much juice. They just have a lower voltage.

Personally I'm not really sure how to do that best. Ideally you'd design electronics to run on a lower voltage to start with and always use rechargeable batteries but if they were going to do that you'd figure there'd just be a Li-Ion battery in there already. Must be primarily for cases where energy density or weight is the only consideration and waste is a very secondary concern.

My roomate used to work at A123 and one of his jobs was literally to drive nails through their lithium batteries to make sure they wouldn't explode. I think it's just a natural human drive to do things like throw batteries into a fire or drive nails through them or put them in a blender. We're a very strange species.

Re: Oil Companies Touted Recycling to Sell More Plastic

#237

Post by chrischen »

lopmotr wrote: post #157
chrischen wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel Americans tend to over-consume and undervalue reuse. I always get made fun of for selling my used things on ebay and also buying used instead of new.

I've heard that sentiment many decades ago too. I suspect it's because things cost the same price everywhere due to international trade but labor for repairing is cheaper in most other countries because they have lower incomes than America. So it may just be a rational economic decision, not the wrong amount of consumption and reuse.

There's a lot of friction when it comes to buying used (no warranty, no guarantees). Used doesn't necessarily mean it requires repair, but people often don't bother to re-sell things they aren't using and manufacturers have policies that try to destroy the used market (non transferrable warranties, planned obsolescence, etc).

Re: Oil Companies Touted Recycling to Sell More Plastic

#238

Post by LargoLasskhyfv »

neltnerb wrote: post #236
LargoLasskhyfv wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I couldn't believe it either! Don't know if it were alakaline or something else anymore. I'm using rechargable Eneloops now, where possible. Honestly I can't remember anymore what has driven me to do that? Maybe frustration because empty so fast?

Awesome. They seem like a good choice, only a little lower capacity than alkaline and seem to hold capacity well. Much better than those old NiCd batteries. The main downside is that the NiMH chemistry is 1.2V instead of 1.5V like alkaline. Same kind of issue as with the older NiCd batteries where they just didn't seem to put out as much juice. They just have a lower voltage. Personally I'm not really sure how to do…

>We're a very strange species.

Indeed :)

Btw. I have an old Canon Powershot A1200 which works flawlessly with the Eneloops. Even during cold weather under -10°C where the display begins to act weird(color shift).

Re: Oil Companies Touted Recycling to Sell More Plastic

#239

Post by Ericson2314 »

LargoLasskhyfv wrote: post #226
macinjosh wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sick of people saying problems are easy to fix by just enacting new laws or regulations. It is so naive. Reusable containers are relatively heavy and take up space in delivery vehicles. It will cost the restaurants time and money to do this. People won’t spend the time to take the containers back so they will end up in the trash or people will find use for them. So all you’ve done is drive up food costs for low…

While there may be some truth to this, another truth would be that as it is now we massively externalize the true costs by making it other peoples problems by shady schemes.

Yeah OP is presuming I want the regulation and I expect the restaurant business to otherwise function the same. Of course I don't. We're finally accounting for the externalities, and if this makes some restaurants unprofitable so be it.

Re: Oil Companies Touted Recycling to Sell More Plastic

#240

Post by Ericson2314 »

LargoLasskhyfv wrote: post #226
macinjosh wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sick of people saying problems are easy to fix by just enacting new laws or regulations. It is so naive. Reusable containers are relatively heavy and take up space in delivery vehicles. It will cost the restaurants time and money to do this. People won’t spend the time to take the containers back so they will end up in the trash or people will find use for them. So all you’ve done is drive up food costs for low…

While there may be some truth to this, another truth would be that as it is now we massively externalize the true costs by making it other peoples problems by shady schemes.

Yeah GP is presuming I want the regulation and I expect the restaurant business to otherwise function the same. Of course I don't. We're finally accounting for the externalities, and if this makes some restaurants unprofitable so be it.
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