Live data from Hacker News

Why do so many people want us back in the office?

paulitaylor.com

551–560 of 624 posts

Re: Why do so many people want us back in the office?

#551

I'm probably going to get a lot of flack for this comment, but it's my honest opinion. People want you in the office so they can babysit you. They don't care about performance; they care about politics. I know, I know, your company is different. You all are equal and it's about saving the world, man. But here's the honest to god truth; Karin the office manager wants to save her job and has zero leg to stand on sendin…

> People want you in the office so they can babysit you.

Only if you're doing a commoditized, conveyor-belt kind of work.

Some of us want you in the office so that we can mentor and train you. Teaching doesn't work too well remotely.

Re: Why do so many people want us back in the office?

#552
This is pretty significant to me, I live in the a place where viability is not very good and spent almost 2h30m in my daily commute, plus 8h40m working.

Since the lockdown and the "working-from-home" revolution I've had the time to start working out, sleep more and better, cook my own food, not being a complete zombie in the evenings, spend more time with my girlfriend...

Of course I'm in a position to say this because I'm also lucky, I have a beautiful home in a nice place.

I always took the reality of the commute and working in the office for a fact, but my productivity also sky rocketed in this period.

I know that sometime soon I'll be back in the office, but it will be incredibly hard to go back to my previous life and give up all of this.

What particularly saddens me is the idea of how wonderful fatherhood could be working from home, and all the time with my kids I'll have to give up again when I'll go back to spend 11h outdoors daily.

Re: Why do so many people want us back in the office?

#553
post #447

This is a complicated problem with different perspectives that no doubt will get muddled at some point. I'm confident at least the following is true: Some people have long commutes and wfh is great Others have small, expensive apartments they paid for shorter commutes and it's suffocating 40-50 hours a week Some people live in palaces and offices are a step down in comfort Some people are happy with the online intera…

Most of these are what one might call "first order effects" - i.e. factors immediately associatable with work location. For prolonged situation, higher order effects are going to become more important. Here are some candidates - 1. Improvement in city air quality due to reduced commute - road and flight. 2. Erosion of "social credits" over time due to lower bandwidth interactions when remote. 3. Cumulative impact of…

> Impact on the body - prolonged unmoderated sitting in bad postures, eye strain due to constant staring into the screen, bad eating habits, etc.

Yep, offices have a terrible impact on people. Working from home gives you the opportunity to eat better, have far fewer snacks thrust in your face, and to get.out and exercise at lunch.

I spend much more time in my local environs now I don't have to travel away from them each day.

Re: Why do so many people want us back in the office?

#554
post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am definitely not the person to address building relationships, I suck at it, that is why I work with computers not people... that said I think you can build in remotely, even the people I am in the same office with 70-80% of our communications is over Chat, Phone, or Email anyway. Why walk 10 feet to the persons office when I can just message them on slack or teams?

Because hearing you laugh when I make a joke makes me far happier than seeing you react with :joy:.

Until our brains' reward circuits are retrained to interpret those emoji reactions the same way we currently interpret genuine in-person laughter.

Re: Why do so many people want us back in the office?

#555
post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of these are what one might call "first order effects" - i.e. factors immediately associatable with work location. For prolonged situation, higher order effects are going to become more important. Here are some candidates - 1. Improvement in city air quality due to reduced commute - road and flight. 2. Erosion of "social credits" over time due to lower bandwidth interactions when remote. 3. Cumulative impact of…

>4. Impact on the body - prolonged unmoderated sitting in bad postures, eye strain due to constant staring into the screen, bad eating habits, etc. I actually lost weight and improved my posture when WFH, and i do have better eating habbits now(being able to cook a warm not pre-ready meal for breakfast is a godsend)

I can squeeze in more sleep than before, not having to travel in is a solid extra half hour I was losing to traffic. It would be 45 but I subtract time for getting ready at home. More sleep is good, I barely get 5 hours as it is.

Re: Why do so many people want us back in the office?

#556
post #180
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best answer I've heard of is a company opening up the offices but mandating that all meetings are over videoconference anyway. Need to get out of the house? There's an office for you. But you don't have an inherent in-person advantage in a meeting.

How many meeting rooms would you need to do that? This would work if most people were in individual or very small offices but that’s rarely the case.

Yes- in this case they have individual offices. But it would work if enough people worked remotely.

Re: Why do so many people want us back in the office?

#557

This is a complicated problem with different perspectives that no doubt will get muddled at some point. I'm confident at least the following is true: Some people have long commutes and wfh is great Others have small, expensive apartments they paid for shorter commutes and it's suffocating 40-50 hours a week Some people live in palaces and offices are a step down in comfort Some people are happy with the online intera…

>Cities are nervous that business districts are devastated since no one buys coffee, lunches or walks home and steps into a shoe store or tailor, or to a bar for drinks with colleagues. I think this is more true than a lot of people think/or care to make known. I know the business district in my city, Nashville, is hurting right now.

> business district

There’s the problem.

Turns out, when city is of a type of mixed use and walkability such that you live above (or a trolly ride away from) where you work, working at work or working at home don’t meaningfully change city viability.

Re: Why do so many people want us back in the office?

#558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the OP, but I've got a pretty concrete example of how these effects can potentially slow down human-driven climate change, which is what they were likely referring to. An immediate first-order effect is a lack of air travel. A resulting second-order effect will be the eventual shift in aircraft buying trends, pricing, scheduling, etc. to adjust to diminished air travel, something that cements more concretely the…

So, to me,the dominant effect here is less demand for air travel->fewer flights. Fewer flights means less carbon emitted. Any knock-on effects seem to pale in comparison because air travel is so carbon intensive. If fewer flights is a "second order" effect here, I'd struggle to name anything that is a first order effect. I don't really think this is what the person I was responding to was talking about when they ment…

> So, to me,the dominant effect here is less demand for air travel->fewer flights. Fewer flights means less carbon emitted. Any knock-on effects seem to pale in comparison because air travel is so carbon intensive.

> If fewer flights is a "second order" effect here, I'd struggle to name anything that is a first order effect. I don't really think this is what the person I was responding to was talking about when they mentioned second order effects. But if it was then I question the usefulness of the terminology.

I'm confused; I don't see how your interpretation arises from what I laid out.

I'll see if I can rephrase and clarify.

The first order effect is that less people are flying specifically because of the pandemic. This doesn't immediately result in fewer flights because air schedules are meticulously planned in order to maintain specific routes, which is why oftentimes at the beginning of the pandemic many planes were flying almost entirely devoid of passengers. In essence, the airlines were hemorrhaging money because their flight schedules were planned months/years in advance by anticipating certain flight loads, and all of that was turned sideways in less than 6 weeks.

The second order effect is that airlines start factoring in the risk of a protracted outbreak with no foreseeable end and therefore start making longer-term strategic decisions adjusting to the sustained (years-long) impact of less flights being booked. New routes, canceled routes, different purchasing decisions for planes, different decisions around how to equip those planes and for which classes of clients, folding some operations in some cities altogether, consolidating operations, etc., and these changes will likely result in airlines having to extract more value from the fewer passengers who do have to fly....

> ...which loops (to the OP's point) back into keeping more people from flying as a third-order effect.

...and therefore potentially contributes towards sustained reduced impact on the environment due to less flights being flown globally, greater fuel efficiency of new jets, and less fuel being burned as a result of both.

Hope this helps.

Re: Why do so many people want us back in the office?

#559
post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of the comments on discussions such as these give me the impression that people are not considering this when they write, or at the very least omitting it. I'm a college student graduating next year, and I just finished my first substantial internship ever in a remote arrangement. The past twelve weeks were my first real experience in my professional environment of interest, but I'm not even sure if I can call i…

I feel absolutely terrible for all of our interns and new-grad hires this year, as they -- like you -- are getting a bizarre experience that we're not at all prepared to do properly, as we've just never done it this way before. As someone who's later in his career, I'm totally fine and happy working from home (and was doing that most of the time pre-pandemic anyway), but if I look back to my early-/mid-20s and think…

I frequently thought, even before the current situation, that much as I've been happily mostly remote for something like 15 years now, it's hard for me to imagine being in that situation when I was starting out.

Sure, communications tools and practices were a lot different then. But, even so, it's difficult for me to see starting out working from my apartment.

Re: Why do so many people want us back in the office?

#560
post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am definitely not the person to address building relationships, I suck at it, that is why I work with computers not people... that said I think you can build in remotely, even the people I am in the same office with 70-80% of our communications is over Chat, Phone, or Email anyway. Why walk 10 feet to the persons office when I can just message them on slack or teams?

> Why walk 10 feet to the persons office when I can just message them on slack or teams? Privacy. Human interaction element. If all your interaction is online at your work - good for you. It isn't for my work environment. Some of my coworkers have taken to giving me their phone number so that we can talk outside Slack because they worry that Slack is being watched now. Some of my coworkers and I used to go on 1:1 wal…

>> Privacy. Some of my coworkers have taken to giving me their phone number so that we can talk outside Slack because they worry that Slack is being watched now.

This is one factor I should consider more, I (among others) control our companies communications platforms so I know the security, who has access, what they can see (and cant see) etc.

If I was not on that team this may also be a factor for me.

as to emotions... Again this is why I work on computers.. I take a Vulcan outlook to emotions.

Post reply on HN