Live data from Hacker News

Ex-Google boss Eric Schmidt: US 'dropped the ball' on innovation

bbc.com

431–440 of 562 posts

Re: Ex-Google boss Eric Schmidt: US 'dropped the ball' on innovation

#431
post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's more of a case of "most electronics and everything that runs on it is not made in Europe". I'm a European posting on an American company's forum using a browser made in the US running on an operating system made by an American company running on a phone designed and built in China with components made in a variety of countries that aren't in Europe. The same goes for using a desktop PC. Even most of the…

Your phone's CPU was designed in the UK! (alas Arm are now owned by a Japanese company)

To be owned by an American company (NVIDIA)

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-09-12/nvidia-is...

Re: Ex-Google boss Eric Schmidt: US 'dropped the ball' on innovation

#432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that’s an insane answer. We’ve divested in public schools over a prolonged period of time, plain and simple. The public schools that have not experienced that magically are in the wealthy “rich” neighborhoods. The system is working as intended. You want an educated population? Make sure schools have the proper investments. None of this 30 kids per classroom bullshit. Do 10-15 and see what kind of students you…

Public education spending as a percentage of GDP is at an all time high. I dont think people appreciate the cost of public schooling in the US. According to data provided by the federal government, public schools in the US spend on average $15,500 per child per year. That is an enormous amount of money and it is only climbing ever higher year after year.

You're going to have to break the $15,500 apart to answer the question: what's wrong with that. How much is "administrative"?

Re: Ex-Google boss Eric Schmidt: US 'dropped the ball' on innovation

#433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The value of Android to Google is that it enables them to gather vast quantities of data from their users. Google uses this data to enhance the efficacy of its advertising, by predicting what people will click on.

I'd be curious to know what hard evidence you have to back this claim up with, otherwise its just hearsay.

Shoshana Zuboff on surveillance capitalism | VPRO Documentary

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIXhnWUmMvw

Re: Ex-Google boss Eric Schmidt: US 'dropped the ball' on innovation

#434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America is under-investing in technology and investment because the US is increasingly filled with people who aren’t American, and don’t ever aspire to be American – they just want what Americans have. The social and cultural values that allowed America to become the light on the hill, to generate the sort of excessive social capital that allowed the Apollo program, now needs to be diverted to support those who just…

Would like to hear more of your thoughts on this, but in simpler terms. If I'm understanding you correctly, you're claiming immigrants are here primarily only for the money, but don't want to culturally integrate ?

[deleted]

Re: Ex-Google boss Eric Schmidt: US 'dropped the ball' on innovation

#435
post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google and Microsoft do a lot of interesting research. Waymo is a good example. I'm not sure what Apple does. My issue with big tech is not lack of innovation or research, but rather that it's all private. We're driving people out orgs that share their research with the world and into ones that lock it away.

I think Apples research is seeing what happens when you sit on a quarter of a trillion dollars. Without veering far off topic. I don't think apple really has a culture of innovation anymore. Each rectangle looks the same. Remember when nokia had all their crazy feature phones. Taking a 30% cut on apps isn't that.

I’m not defending Apple, but I disagree that adding features is the same as innovation. I wish the tech industry would focus on quality over quantity.

Re: Ex-Google boss Eric Schmidt: US 'dropped the ball' on innovation

#436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since you mention regulation, I think it is something to be proud of. GDPR, Germany saying hell-no to forced Facebook accounts, etc. As for innovation? US isn't even top 10 when it comes to Nobel prize per capita ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Nobel_l... ). IKEA, SAP, Beretta, Airbus, Spotify, Linux, Prometheus, Grafana, Booking.com just from the top of my head of things that are proof of Euro…

> As for innovation? US isn't even top 10 when it comes to Nobel prize per capita Your per capita list is an epic compliment to the US. The fact that the US is #15 per capita is extraordinary, given your list is comparing the US to top ten countries like East Timor, Saint Lucia, Luxembourg and Iceland, where if you get one or two you leap ahead of the entire world. Among large population nations, only the UK and Germ…

> extraordinary, given your list is comparing the US to top ten countries like East Timor, Saint Lucia, Luxembourg and Iceland

Compare that with the resources available and it will look much less extraordinary

It is extraordinary that countries with much less resources, much less competition and orders of magnitude smaller pool of talents to chose from (4 orders of magnitude in the case of Iceland, East Timor and Luxembourg), can rival the richest and most powerful country in the World in modern history

But let's look at the US noble prize winners

     19 born in Germany
     12 born in Canada
     11 born in United Kingdom
      7 born in Italy
      7 born in Russia
      6 born in China
      6 born in Austria
      4 born in India
      4 born in Hungary
      3 born in South Africa
      3 born in France
      2 born in Poland
      2 born in Netherlands
      2 born in Romania
      2 born in Japan
      2 born in Israel
      1 born in Venezuela
      1 born in Turkey
      1 born in Taiwan
      1 born in Switzerland
      1 born in Spain
      1 born in Norway
      1 born in New Zealand
      1 born in Mexico
      1 born in Korea
      1 born in Ireland
      1 born in Egypt
      1 born in Australia
for a grand total of 103 Nobel prizes won by foreigners

Re: Ex-Google boss Eric Schmidt: US 'dropped the ball' on innovation

#437
post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google definitely could of created a research laboratory. Wasnt it not long ago that companies would invest a lot more money on research? That was why we got so many impressive projects out of Bell Labs and I am sure other companies. Its a shame that horse race ended. Whats worse is Google wants all their software to be as intangible as possible by forcing it all on their servers. Google hasnt had many desktop apps y…

Google and Microsoft do a lot of interesting research. Waymo is a good example. I'm not sure what Apple does. My issue with big tech is not lack of innovation or research, but rather that it's all private. We're driving people out orgs that share their research with the world and into ones that lock it away.

Researchers working at Bell Labs are credited with the development of radio astronomy, the transistor, the laser, the photovoltaic cell, the charge-coupled device (CCD), information theory, the Unix operating system, and the programming languages B, C, C++, and S.

Source: Wikipedia page on Bell Labs.

Yes, google does research but not the basic fundamental research that isn’t immediately a product to be sold.

Re: Ex-Google boss Eric Schmidt: US 'dropped the ball' on innovation

#438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are reams of scholarship about how the bomb wasn’t necessary to end the war in the Pacific Theater. This was, in fact, the conclusion at the time of the United States Strategic Bombing Survey: > Bаsеd on а dеtаilеd invеstigаtion of аll thе fаcts, аnd supportеd by thе tеstimony of thе surviving Jаpаnеsе lеаdеrs involvеd, it is thе Survеy's opinion thаt cеrtаinly prior to 31 Dеcеmbеr 1945, аnd in аll probаbility…

Saying we knew something in hindsight given information not available to the decision makers at the time is a poor argument. Amazingly Truman didn't have the honest testimony of the Japanese leaders to make his choice on in 1945.

Plenty of US military leaders advised against the bombing, prior to the strike, including Eisenhower. But we’re not speaking to legitimacy of hindsight views anyway, instead the lasting, incorrect assertion that it was necessary or justified, which you embraced in your first comment.

Re: Ex-Google boss Eric Schmidt: US 'dropped the ball' on innovation

#439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China and most Asian countries are ethonostates. In America, if you suggest that we should be an ethnostate you would not only be called a white supremecist, you'd likely lose your job. In fact, today to even suggest reducing immigration (like Trump) you get called a white supremecist. That is just a reality. So to say that China is less Xenophobic seems crazy to me. If China had the same immigration levels that Amer…

> China and most Asian countries are ethonostates. In America, if you suggest that we should be an ethnostate you would not only be called a white supremecist, you'd likely lose your job. In fact, today to even suggest reducing immigration (like Trump) you get called a white supremecist. That is just a reality. Xenophobia has gradients and degrees: What I am talking about: The number one reason why the US was able to…

> You hold a very narrow view of multicultural societies

No, I hold an accurate view of them.

Differences matter and the difference between two Han Chinese is not the same difference between a White person and a Somali refugee no matter how much you pretend it is.

America was not always a multi-cultural society. It was a society for the white man. This was explicitly stated by every president from George Washington to Abraham Lincoln to Woodrow Wilson. Our frontier spirit was largely driven by claiming land for the white man away from supposedly barbaric and inferior races. Go read a history of the Mexican-America war if you want to dive into how much racial solidarity played a part in us winning that war. You like others want to make it seem a lot less homogeneous than it was by talking about Irish and Italian immigrants (of which I am one).

Similarly, China is not a multi-cultural society and neither is India. I'd encourage you to actually go to these places. When I went to India I had to stay in a barricaded hotel with bomb checks. I had people requesting to get a picture with me as I was so unusual every time I went out.

And as for why I think America was successful at innovating earlier in the 20th century? I think it has a huge part to do with a tremendous culture of education and learning, as well as huge amounts of investments.

Just to give an example, the Apollo project was 2% of GDP! Just think about that. Can you imagine research investment happening at that level?

Re: Ex-Google boss Eric Schmidt: US 'dropped the ball' on innovation

#440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After WW2/Korea (I forget the exact time frame) IBM was making money just fine and refused to take a risk on then modern transistor computing machines. The US Government spent the money and effectively donated trillions in profits to the rich elites of today. I find it hilarious how ignorant we are of the last 50-70 years of details of our history. Basically the lifetime of Bezos, Gates... their parents changed the r…

> The US Government spent the money and effectively donated trillions in profits to the rich elites of today. Those rich elites being everybody who uses a computer. Basic scientific research is the paradigmatic case of where the government should be spending money. The rich don’t get better iPhones, they barely get better computers considering how fast the state of the art advances. There may be fields where somethin…

The biological shortcomings inherent to the species are inherent in scientists and engineers.

Your argument to the contrary is reductionist to the point of absurdity. Emotionally minimizing their set of privileges to “their iPhones are the same!” Insanity. Great we all get the same iPhone. I’d rather have their healthcare. But let them push us into multimedia gadgetry production, not hospital building, by shaping the information we see through the gadgets!

Economics of keeping people healthy is costlier to them than keeping us sedate and distracted from our literal health through the high of new disposable stuff.

Capacity for blind faith is a feature of our biology. If you’re going to peddle science in engineering systems, you can’t wave away the science of biology and say “well in social contexts core physics are arbitrarily different.”

Engineers are carpenters with circuits (disclaimer: hardware engineer with 20yrs in the industry). They haven’t re-invented physics that can’t be re-invented. They’re librarians of knowledge, not creators of unique physical truth in fundamental ways.

And to address the social system aspects, the historical record is clear and easily Googled. You’ve done nothing to challenge the arguments I’ve studied over decades. Social media hot takes hardly wave away decades of measured science and public government files.

More blind faith serving as personal validation.

Post reply on HN