Ex-Google boss Eric Schmidt: US 'dropped the ball' on innovation • Hacker News Board

Re: Ex-Google boss Eric Schmidt: US 'dropped the ball' on innovation

#161

Post by asdff » Sun, Sep 13, 2020, 7:00 AM UTC

missedthecue wrote: post #152

vlovich123 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that’s an insane answer. We’ve divested in public schools over a prolonged period of time, plain and simple. The public schools that have not experienced that magically are in the wealthy “rich” neighborhoods. The system is working as intended. You want an educated population? Make sure schools have the proper investments. None of this 30 kids per classroom bullshit. Do 10-15 and see what kind of students you…

Public education spending as a percentage of GDP is at an all time high. I dont think people appreciate the cost of public schooling in the US. According to data provided by the federal government, public schools in the US spend on average $15,500 per child per year. That is an enormous amount of money and it is only climbing ever higher year after year.

It depends on the area. It's been particularly divested in California, which falls short of the average per child spend despite having the highest GDP. In CA, per child spend has fallen 15% from 1970-1997.

https://www.kqed.org/news/11701044/how-proposition-13-transf...

Re: Ex-Google boss Eric Schmidt: US 'dropped the ball' on innovation

#162

Post by TheSpiceIsLife » Sun, Sep 13, 2020, 7:02 AM UTC

hliyan wrote: post #160

vlovich123 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that’s an insane answer. We’ve divested in public schools over a prolonged period of time, plain and simple. The public schools that have not experienced that magically are in the wealthy “rich” neighborhoods. The system is working as intended. You want an educated population? Make sure schools have the proper investments. None of this 30 kids per classroom bullshit. Do 10-15 and see what kind of students you…

Counterpoint: I grew up in a third world country where class room sizes were between 30-40. Facilities and teacher qualifications were spartan at best. Good textbooks cost an appreciable fraction of an average person's monthly income.

For this to be a counterpoint you'd need to demonstrate how this lead to good eductional outcomes, or at least provide an anecdote.

Re: Ex-Google boss Eric Schmidt: US 'dropped the ball' on innovation

#163

Post by SamReidHughes » Sun, Sep 13, 2020, 7:02 AM UTC

sorval wrote: post #114

koolba wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cities and States with the worst public education systems and the highest crime rates have been run by one party, the Democrats, for 50+ years. Some 100+! They can and have continued to raise taxes and subsequently squander any money they collect. Any attempt to break that stranglehold, such as changing teachers union hiring practices or allowing for charter schools, is met with total resistance. You’re right tha…

Thats just utterly untrue and the reverse of whats actually true. "states that were coded as blue based upon results from the 2004 presidential election were significantly higher in education funding than were states coded as red. Students in blue states scored significantly higher on outcome measures of math and reading in grades four and eight than did students in red states." https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED5…

That’s the most facile thing I’ve ever read. Did it control for cost of living? Did it control for demographics?

In 2019, and I’m using this because you can explore it at https://www.nationsreportcard.gov/mathematics/states/groups?... , Mississippi’s 8th grade math mean score was the same as New Hampshire’s, when comparing white students. Mississippi is just way less white than New Hampshire. California, also near the bottom overall, has better white performance than New Hampshire, but not as good as Massachusetts, which has always had a lot of smart people moving to Boston.

The ranking there is simply a diversity/brain drain ranking. Mississippi and California are way more diverse, so they rank low. States with nothing to attract or keep smart parents, like West Virginia, rank low too.

Re: Ex-Google boss Eric Schmidt: US 'dropped the ball' on innovation

#164

Post by donw » Sun, Sep 13, 2020, 7:02 AM UTC

techbio wrote: post #136

roenxi wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand China's educational strategy (no information), but their manufacturing strategy was highly decentralised. Shenzhen for example had a substantially independent government system with a modified tax code. They've been running a lot of independent experiments everywhere I looked, figuring out how to prosper. That might carry over to education. The biggest mistake the US seems to be making is centralis…

A big part of the Chinese education strategy has been to send lots of students to US universities to get advanced degrees and take that knowledge back to build China.

And to ensure that manufacturing moved to China!

Or at the very least, proximate to its geographical sphere of influence.

Honestly, it was a brilliant move on their part.

Everybody seems to focus on university, but there is a lot of very hard-won know-how at the technician level of the manufacturing sector. Most of this is difficult-to-impossible to codify, and tends to pass both cohort-to-cohort, and via professional networks.

Re: Ex-Google boss Eric Schmidt: US 'dropped the ball' on innovation

#165

Post by asdff » Sun, Sep 13, 2020, 7:04 AM UTC

arvinsim wrote: post #107

didibus wrote: post #19

> "America does not have enough people with those skills." Seriously, I feel the US has a big education problem, with part of it being cultural I think. Seems being educated, knowledgeable, having expertise, learning about science and technology, medicine and law, just isn't valued anymore, in fact it's almost being denigrated and shamed. What I see instead is people pushing for anti-intellectualism and valuing the "…

> Seriously, I feel the US has a big education problem, with part of it being cultural I think. Seems being educated, knowledgeable, having expertise, learning about science and technology, medicine and law, just isn't valued anymore, in fact it's almost being denigrated and shamed. > What I see instead is people pushing for anti-intellectualism and valuing the "college dropouts". It's because outside of a few except…

Imagine how we'd operate if people were truly free to do their calling, and all the scientists and poets and musicians posing as businessmen and HR reps came out of the woodwork. We'd be commenting in this thread from Mars by now.

Re: Ex-Google boss Eric Schmidt: US 'dropped the ball' on innovation

#166

Post by robk » Sun, Sep 13, 2020, 7:09 AM UTC

throw_m239339 wrote: post #156

tomcam wrote: post #150

A reminder that Google's revenues come almost completely from ad technology that they bought (from Doubleclick, IIRC). Google has stuck its fingers into hundreds of pies since then, to its credit, and has found that innovation is difficult, unpredictable, and expensive.

Search, Maps, Ads and Android are Google's most successful product. Android was bought at well.

The serious android work was done well after acquisition

Re: Ex-Google boss Eric Schmidt: US 'dropped the ball' on innovation

#167

Post by reducesuffering » Sun, Sep 13, 2020, 7:10 AM UTC

arvinsim wrote: post #113

reducesuffering wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Further, GP notes > "they must take on a punishingly expensive college education or they’ll never amount to anything." Except that high school graduates have the option to do 2 years of community college (~5k) and 2 years at a state school (~13k). Generally possible to most while living at home for no additional rent. CS jobs are in high supply and 100k+ out of college. The college cost would be paid off in a year. T…

> Then there's the fact that many positions are not requiring a college education at all. Tell that to companies who still are filtering applicants based on their college education.

Of course there are. There are still many companies that aren't and software engineers are still in very high demand.

Re: Ex-Google boss Eric Schmidt: US 'dropped the ball' on innovation

#168

Post by Aunche » Sun, Sep 13, 2020, 7:11 AM UTC

vlovich123 wrote: post #132

hliyan wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My hypothesis is that the US is a victim of its own success: several generations of living in a prosperous, stable society reduces the need for the average citizen to develop survival skills. Here I use the term 'survival skills' very generally: it includes specialized education and expertise in some area, financial planning and risk management skills, inter-personnel and conflict resolution skills, emotional resilie…

I think that’s an insane answer. We’ve divested in public schools over a prolonged period of time, plain and simple. The public schools that have not experienced that magically are in the wealthy “rich” neighborhoods. The system is working as intended. You want an educated population? Make sure schools have the proper investments. None of this 30 kids per classroom bullshit. Do 10-15 and see what kind of students you…

I think it's insane not to consider that we're getting too comfortable as a society. According to Nielsen, the average adult spends over 11 hours a day consuming media. I imagine a lot of it is passive, but that nevertheless must have an impact on our productivity.

https://www.nielsen.com/us/en/insights/article/2018/time-fli...

Re: Ex-Google boss Eric Schmidt: US 'dropped the ball' on innovation

#169

Post by jacobwilliamroy » Sun, Sep 13, 2020, 7:14 AM UTC

missedthecue wrote: post #153

jacobwilliamroy wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having a dumb population means you can make lots of money for very little effort. Pet rocks? Million dollar idea. Water? As long as it's .00000000000000001% poison, it's a homeopathic remedy you can sell for $500 a vial. Add more water to make it more expensive. Ever think about using the equity in your home to consolidate your credit cards and other debts? Dumb dumbs spend more and expect less. Bad education is good…

I don't think this is a very good take. There is a very clear correlation between GNP and education level in nations.

The U.S. is the exception, not the rule. We have a global, neoliberal economy. We don't need skilled americans. What we need is more useless watchamacallits! Would you like to buy some bottled water? It comes from a spring, I promise!

Or maybe another smart phone? Probably been awhile since you bought one of those. Why not buy one again?

Re: Ex-Google boss Eric Schmidt: US 'dropped the ball' on innovation

#170

Post by natmaka » Sun, Sep 13, 2020, 7:14 AM UTC

Those directly involved in innovation, especially scientists and technicians, are more and more traveling, changing employers and above all communicating, in all relevant meaning of this term here, therefore by 'publishing' as well as by leaving information circulate informally among peers.

A high proportion of scientists go through major US universities. This imbues them with certain ideas and creates social (IRL) networks where 'information ought to be free'. Those who then work elsewhere (let's say 'return to China') just cannot completely drop them, and some even broadcast those ideas and associated behaviors.

Moreover the US supremacy on software provides them with increasing means to effectively spy on research conducted in all countries.

Consequently, the US ability to benefit from innovation payed for by other nations keeps growing.

In a way it is similar to the 80's "Strategic Defense Initiative" against the USSR ('let them dissipate resources'), with the added bonus of being able to rack a fair part of the benefits up.