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Why do so many people want us back in the office?

paulitaylor.com

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Re: Why do so many people want us back in the office?

#441

Post by slimed »

DoofusOfDeath wrote: post #436
goatinaboat wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now months later I feel like things are starting to grind a bit and productivity is starting to wane because the "pipe" is starting to dry up. My employer mandated a return to the office about 2 weeks ago. Productivity has declined compared to when we were all WFH for 6 months and I have the stats - pull requests, builds pushed to prod, tickets opened, all are down.

Out of curiosity, how did your employer convince people to accept the increased risk of covid19 transmission that comes from working in the office?

Easy. Tell them they can come to work or find another job.

Re: Why do so many people want us back in the office?

#442

Post by Cd00d »

x87678r wrote: post #124

My commute is 20 minutes on an uncrowded ferry, and my home office is a tiny desk in my daughter's bedroom while she works on the other side on school stuff. My colleague has a massive house with a pool tennis court and so much space he has literally 3 never-used bedrooms. His wife looks after kids who are at school most of the day again. His commute is 2 hours each way. People are talking home vs office people are c…

I'm not sure. I think it's still too early for people to be comfortable going to open offices.

My company officially allowed on-site work again several weeks ago in NYC. I have one close colleague that tried it, and he was the only on in the office. I know several colleagues in small apartments that were not fans of not being in the office that have not returned yet.

Sure, more space at home makes it easier to drag this to the long term, but even people inconvenienced at home have found solutions for 180 days now, and aren't (at least with my company) jumping to come back.

Re: Why do so many people want us back in the office?

#443

Post by Qwertious »

mdoms wrote: post #426
formercoder wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not the only factor. I have a home office and can’t wait to get back. I work in an industry that’s all about relationships and those are hard to build remotely. I just started a new role and there’s no way I could ever progress upward in this state.

I don't know why you're being downvoted. It's a valid opinion that I happen to share. I have a great home office but I still want to be around other humans.

Because we don't have stats on what % of home-office owners want to go back to work and there's no way of knowing whether his anecdote is just a token exception, or a representation of a larger outlier. Maybe 1% of home-office owners want to go back to work, maybe 49%. The comment's anecdote doesn't do anything.

More importantly, the comment has nothing but an anecdote that's attempting to make a statement on what the stats will probably be. There's no fact-based discussion possible, only whether you think the anecdote is "representative" or not. Which you have to decide based on your prior beliefs, because the post doesn't contain new information ("X population has nonzero people who disagree on belief Y" is not new information).

I guess I should ask: what discussion could be had around this anecdote, other than "guess the % who agree"?

Re: Why do so many people want us back in the office?

#444

Post by sodapopcan »

swiley wrote: post #430
Talanes wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find some degree of commute itself necessary for my mental health. The act of traveling itself flips a mental switch. Just being home all day, I basically have to go out and pick up a coffee or something in the morning just to simulate that feeling.

This must be learned, commuting is definitely not something I would say was good for my mental health.

Heh, all these comments are very much "to each their own" but ya, holy heck did I ever HATE my commute. It wasn't even that long, but it was depressing. I didn't even realize how filled with dread I was every night before going to bed and every day around 4pm or so realizing I'd be faced with getting myself home. This situation is heaven for me (not saying I'm happy about why we're in this situation, to be clear).

Of course, I live alone in a decent-sized apartment outside of downtown. I also work at an XP shop (I actually much prefer remote pairing) and I'd probably feel differently if I had to work alone all day every day.

Re: Why do so many people want us back in the office?

#445

Post by ryandrake »

atlasunshrugged wrote: post #375
s0rce wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, I have a 1 bdrm apartment (in law) that I share with my wife. We alternate working at a desk in the living area, at the dining table or a folding table set up in the bedroom. I used to commute 20min by bike in the SF East Bay. I very infrequently go in when I need to do something in the lab (biotech company, not everything can be done remotely). When I found this place I never intended for it to for it to be…

Yeah but then you'd have to live in Minden, NV. From a guy who grew up in Gardnerville, NV, it's sure as hell not a place I'd ever move to - if you're looking for the nature and tax break of Nevada outside Tahoe or Incline is probably much nicer.

Is Gardnerville bad though? Never been there but the town seems to have really cheap land, some beautiful ranch properties, reasonable proximity to Tahoe/skiing, and zero income tax. I know culture is not measured in $/sq.ft but as a Californian paying out the nose in taxes for nothing, it seems to be a pretty decent location.

Re: Why do so many people want us back in the office?

#446

Post by Cd00d »

jdavis703 wrote: post #222
tima11234 wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People need to adapt. Just because you can't seem to figure out how to read a book now or listen to pod casts because you only did those things when forced to commute, isn't a good argument against WFH.

When I’m home my family wants to talk, watch TV or do so many other things not conducive to deep focus. On the train I can put on some music, and generally only be interrupted about once per hour. And it’s not like there’s really any places to get deep focus anymore. The parks and plazas are filled with air pollution, cafes are takeout only and libraries are closed.

Genuinely confused about the parks and plazas comment. Is this a specific regional air pollution concern or related to covid?

I thought that overall air pollution was way down, and covid dispersion outdoors was a minor concern. Where I'm at, I avoid indoor space maximally, but outdoors I am comfortable with 6 ft and a mask.

Re: Why do so many people want us back in the office?

#447

Post by sriku »

mancerayder wrote: post #392

This is a complicated problem with different perspectives that no doubt will get muddled at some point. I'm confident at least the following is true: Some people have long commutes and wfh is great Others have small, expensive apartments they paid for shorter commutes and it's suffocating 40-50 hours a week Some people live in palaces and offices are a step down in comfort Some people are happy with the online intera…

Most of these are what one might call "first order effects" - i.e. factors immediately associatable with work location. For prolonged situation, higher order effects are going to become more important.

Here are some candidates -

1. Improvement in city air quality due to reduced commute - road and flight.

2. Erosion of "social credits" over time due to lower bandwidth interactions when remote.

3. Cumulative impact of serendipitous but significant learning arising from in-person interactions.

4. Impact on the body - prolonged unmoderated sitting in bad postures, eye strain due to constant staring into the screen, bad eating habits, etc.

5. Reduction in sense of belonging / identity / cohesiveness as the "molecules" that make up a cell can move more freely through the "cell boundary".

6. Impact on cognitive development during early childhood - due to school-from-home and lack of social interactions. Joint family homes are great to counter this!

7. Eroding knowledge and awareness of local geography due to reduced travel. Reduced attachment here can lead to apathy when local environs get trashed.

Re: Why do so many people want us back in the office?

#448

Post by gpsx »

I really liked this linked article below which talks about what makes people most productive. Its starts off talking about brainstorming, which it says doesn't work, but goes on to talking about more general collaboration and is relevant for this debate.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/01/30/groupthink

Re: Why do so many people want us back in the office?

#449

Post by visarga »

01100011 wrote: post #140

I would be in favor of a number of working arrangements, ranging from working in a Bay Area office full-time(least favorite) to working from home most-time in an area that provides me with the chance to buy a home and have a reasonable commute to a satellite office. I am absolutely, 100% against full-time WFH in an expensive, low-quality(no sound/thermal insulation) Bay Area apartment without a dedicated workspace. >…

> working from home most time in an area that provides me with the chance to buy a home and have a reasonable commute to a satellite office

Companies will lower our salaries as we move to more affordable places to live. It already is dependent on location, people in the same team living in US and EU have different compensations.

Re: Why do so many people want us back in the office?

#450

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

maneesh wrote: post #343
TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know the success explosion wasn't about to happen regardless?

Because I would have run out of money and died pretty soon after if I hadn’t left

Does that imply the key factor wax runway (captilal) rather than the remote work itself?
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