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Why do so many people want us back in the office?

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Re: Why do so many people want us back in the office?

#431

Post by InertBrake »

iancmceachern wrote: post #400
mancerayder wrote: post #392

This is a complicated problem with different perspectives that no doubt will get muddled at some point. I'm confident at least the following is true: Some people have long commutes and wfh is great Others have small, expensive apartments they paid for shorter commutes and it's suffocating 40-50 hours a week Some people live in palaces and offices are a step down in comfort Some people are happy with the online intera…

And further complicated by the fact the the same person may want different things at different stages in their life. Ive evolved, like many in my workplace, to be on site in the office as needed, occasionally (we work in hardware). We've learned to do most everything from home, with a few on site activities as needed.

Many of the comments on discussions such as these give me the impression that people are not considering this when they write, or at the very least omitting it.

I'm a college student graduating next year, and I just finished my first substantial internship ever in a remote arrangement. The past twelve weeks were my first real experience in my professional environment of interest, but I'm not even sure if I can call it that. I did the best I could and completed three of four of my projects, one of which was a competition where my team placed. But this was despite reassignment from my preferred original projects (in a physical lab), productivity, and general morale suffering immensely from pretty much every restriction COVID and the California wildfires have wrought on us.

I'm a young guy in the process of building myself in nearly every way. I have more "potential" than I do domain knowledge and wisdom. I'm less disciplined. I feel a huge need to get out into the world and see people in places to develop my career and every type of relationship. These have all been harder to work on in the current climate.

So when I see people extolling anecdotal virtues of no commute or not having to bother with seeing their coworker's faces in response to comments explaining why people may like the office, I get annoyed. I've literally never seen a single colleague of mine in real life or had a chance to get bored of my commute, and it was not a choice for me. Yes, adapting as things come is important. That doesn't change the assertion my demographic will have likely been more impacted by this when the smoke clears. I haven't had nearly as much opportunity as these people may have taken for granted in situating themselves so they can presently bank on their know-how and established relationships until we are out of this crisis. I hope my experiences in this regard will not be as bad as I go for full-time after I finish school in June.

Re: Why do so many people want us back in the office?

#432

Post by bradlys »

syshum wrote: post #410
formercoder wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not the only factor. I have a home office and can’t wait to get back. I work in an industry that’s all about relationships and those are hard to build remotely. I just started a new role and there’s no way I could ever progress upward in this state.

I am definitely not the person to address building relationships, I suck at it, that is why I work with computers not people... that said I think you can build in remotely, even the people I am in the same office with 70-80% of our communications is over Chat, Phone, or Email anyway. Why walk 10 feet to the persons office when I can just message them on slack or teams?

> Why walk 10 feet to the persons office when I can just message them on slack or teams?

Privacy. Human interaction element. If all your interaction is online at your work - good for you. It isn't for my work environment.

Some of my coworkers have taken to giving me their phone number so that we can talk outside Slack because they worry that Slack is being watched now. Some of my coworkers and I used to go on 1:1 walks around the office area to get a breath of fresh air but also to have private discussions. We can't do that the same way anymore. I talked to one on the phone recently but it's not the same - you can't see every bit of their emotion as it is conveyed. Video doesn't do this justice either - how often are people going to show you a nervous fidget they're doing off screen that indicates they're under a lot of stress?

It depends on the type of place you're at. If you're at a great place where everything is just a rocket ship, everyone is in love with their work, and everyone's boss is just a stellar human being who really has high regard for their subordinates - then whatever. But - that's not been the case at any company I've ever worked at. So, :shrug:

Re: Why do so many people want us back in the office?

#433

Post by solidasparagus »

gerdesj wrote: post #255
ConcernedCoder wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I don't know about working from "anywhere in the world"... I'm sure there's places without good internet, etc... that would make that difficult or impossible. I can say one thing about it after being 100% WFH for 2+ years now, I can set my alarm clock, to wake me up exactly 1 hour before my morning video conference "standup" meeting, and still have time to wash-up, make coffee, watch the markets open, be proper…

I'm an MD of a very small firm in the UK and I have had my mindset changed by events. A huge social experiment on homeworking has been done (and ongoing) and results are in. I will make my commuters into remote workers by default unless they either want to come in or have to. One of my guys is Polish in Poland and can do whatever the hell he wants! Most of my staff are a bit stressed over SARS-COV-2, as am I but we w…

> A huge social experiment on homeworking has been done (and ongoing) and results are in.

No they really aren't. It will be several years until we really understand the effect of remote work on areas like talent management, retention, idea generation, trust building, etc.

Re: Why do so many people want us back in the office?

#434

Post by formercoder »

crmd wrote: post #427
formercoder wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not the only factor. I have a home office and can’t wait to get back. I work in an industry that’s all about relationships and those are hard to build remotely. I just started a new role and there’s no way I could ever progress upward in this state.

What do you do?

I work in financial services advising corporations on financial transactions.

Re: Why do so many people want us back in the office?

#435

Post by paulryanrogers »

vonseel wrote: post #329
ghaff wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really, there are only 2 costs that matter. On the one side you have the commute--both in time and money. On the other side is whether the place you'd be living in otherwise is suitable for long-term WFH or if you have to spend more money for another bedroom or whatever. So, if you already have a dedicated office in an exurban house (as I do), not commuting--which I rarely did anyway--is a cost savings. As someone wh…

The delta in utilities, in a place like Texas, during the summer months, is certainly not trivial. Relative to a tech workers salary, sure, a hundred bucks per month isn’t that much, but it’s costing me a lot more to keep my house cool through 100F days all summer long than it would if I let the thermostat go to 80F during the workday.

Does everyone in the living space leave for the day? At my place someone is always home most of everyday anyway.

Re: Why do so many people want us back in the office?

#436

Post by DoofusOfDeath »

goatinaboat wrote: post #147
mattlondon wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not so sure productivity has definitely improved. I agree there was a good head of steam where people were able to quietly and independently work through their "list" of stuff they wanted to do for ages but never had the chance to etc, or whatever had previously been planned out. Now months later I feel like things are starting to grind a bit and productivity is starting to wane because the "pipe" is starting to…

Now months later I feel like things are starting to grind a bit and productivity is starting to wane because the "pipe" is starting to dry up. My employer mandated a return to the office about 2 weeks ago. Productivity has declined compared to when we were all WFH for 6 months and I have the stats - pull requests, builds pushed to prod, tickets opened, all are down.

Out of curiosity, how did your employer convince people to accept the increased risk of covid19 transmission that comes from working in the office?

Re: Why do so many people want us back in the office?

#437

Post by samatman »

jstanley wrote: post #294
Aeolun wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But I do not have an extra office in a dedicated bedroom. I live in central Tokyo. The delta in house price for ‘extra bedroom’ in the place I live is around $250,000. There is just no way my company is going to even consider reimbursing me for that.

But if you're WFH, you don't need to live in central Tokyo, you can live anywhere. You'd probably save money by gaining an extra bedroom and moving out of central Tokyo, no?

What you say is true, of course.

But then this is the trade: he goes from a cheap, tiny place in Tokyo, spends most of his time at the office or out and about, gets to enjoy a world-class city

to: living somewhere that isn't Tokyo, where he can afford a space large enough to have an office, and is home all the time, and doesn't get to enjoy a world-class city.

Not a win, I'm guessing. And this is coming from someone in his third year of remote work who lives a mile out of a village of about 3,000 people. It's not everyone's cup of tea.

Re: Why do so many people want us back in the office?

#438

Post by Cd00d »

formercoder wrote: post #408
syshum wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While everything you listed is a factor, My experience it normally comes down to if you have a actual home office or not. People that have the luxury of a dedicated office at home, an actual room that is just used as an office, not a corner of the kitchen or living room that has the "family desk" that everyone shares, is more apt for WFH I know many people that do not have this space, and do not have the ability to c…

That’s not the only factor. I have a home office and can’t wait to get back. I work in an industry that’s all about relationships and those are hard to build remotely. I just started a new role and there’s no way I could ever progress upward in this state.

I think the current WFH and restrictions are especially hard on the sales teams. No more client dinners, golf, or travel for a demo, and it's much harder to make the relationship over phone or zoom. Plus, the handshake is missing.

Re: Why do so many people want us back in the office?

#439

Post by ip26 »

01100011 wrote: post #140

I would be in favor of a number of working arrangements, ranging from working in a Bay Area office full-time(least favorite) to working from home most-time in an area that provides me with the chance to buy a home and have a reasonable commute to a satellite office. I am absolutely, 100% against full-time WFH in an expensive, low-quality(no sound/thermal insulation) Bay Area apartment without a dedicated workspace. >…

if your job can be done from home, it can be done from anywhere in the world

Anyone who says this has never tried to work closely with someone in a timezone ~12 hours away.

Re: Why do so many people want us back in the office?

#440

Post by solidasparagus »

heavyset_go wrote: post #235
roenxi wrote: post #50

There is a certain mindset - turns up all the time in economic discussions too - where if a change is made and doesn't lead to a metric-observable consequence in 6 months then that is the end of the discussion. Working from home is crippling for forming new social connections. Promotions are done based, primarily, on social connections. Hiring too. There is very strong pressure for ambitious people who know how the w…

> Working from home is crippling for forming new social connections. This is really strange to me as someone who has worked remotely for the past several years, because I've made more social connections outside of work than I ever did while working. > And the social aspect of a supervisor understanding what their reports are doing is also easy to underestimate. Offices will be back as soon as it is practicable. Sound…

I assume they mean professional relationships.
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