Why do so many people want us back in the office? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why do so many people want us back in the office?

#91

Post by ketzu » Sat, Sep 12, 2020, 2:41 PM UTC

Nursie wrote: post #45

ketzu wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Number one reason for me is the separation of work and private life. It's so much easier to keep work from creeping into my private life when it happens in a totally different place. I also miss the social interactions, discussion with colleagues is much easier in person. Lastly, I hope it will reduce the amount of video conferences that crept up considerably. edit: Not OP obviously. edit2: Note: Just to make sure, I…

At 5.30 I reboot my workstation from linux into windows. Separation complete :)

I am glad this works for you! Maybe it's because I can't switch my mind so easily, I prefer a physical distance (I don't think a separate room would be enough for me either).

Re: Why do so many people want us back in the office?

#92

Post by matthewmacleod » Sat, Sep 12, 2020, 2:43 PM UTC

supernova87a wrote: post #69

I've mentioned this before, but WFH has a huge difference in result depending on who you are, when you are (in your career), and where you are in a company (or organization). For some people , going back to the office has benefits. -- For the budding young developer who can't wait to show ideas to teammates and demonstrate being a go-getter by asking random questions and finding unaddressed issues to innovate on, WFH…

For the working parent whose productivity has been slashed by 50% and stress has gone up by 50% due to parenting obligations, WFH might be terrible.

But it’s worth bearing in mind that this in particular is an almost completely orthogonal issue.

Re: Why do so many people want us back in the office?

#93

Post by Infinitesimus » Sat, Sep 12, 2020, 2:44 PM UTC

hazemotes wrote: post #12

My coworker seems to be fighting for us to go back because he's sick of spending all day at home with his wife.

Understandable. A lot of family relationships are under a lot of strain right now and enjoying 8hours a day with someone doesn't mean you'll enjoy spending 24/7 with them.

Hopefully, offices open up as an option for people who want separation for various reasons.

Re: Why do so many people want us back in the office?

#94

Post by balfirevic » Sat, Sep 12, 2020, 2:46 PM UTC

ketzu wrote: post #90

jefflombardjr wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a great reason. You like to set boundaries between work and private life. But I'm not convinced a corporate office is the only, let alone, best option. Have you considered alternatives?

No I haven't considered alternatives between a corporate office and a home office. Could you list some? I am fairy uncreative about these things, unfortunately :/

Coworking space or a small private office that's separate from your house/aparment.

Re: Why do so many people want us back in the office?

#95

Post by gravitas » Sat, Sep 12, 2020, 2:46 PM UTC

garrickvanburen wrote: post #59

munchbunny wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not the parent poster, but I agree with their preference. It’s psychological. I focus better with a clear delineation of work in a work setting and personal life in a home setting. Even the physical transition of the commute helps me switch over. This is something that has eroded in the last six months even though I’ve tried to substitute it with practices like an “office” room. Additionally, I am definitely a pe…

I get the want for distinct physical spaces to change contexts, though considering we're 20+ years into a world of employer issued laptop and mobile phones, making the delineation between work and non-work is very much up to each of us as individuals. This is as a small as not checking work email outside of work hours and as large as finding a space that you yourself work best in even if that means not home or your e…

The issue is while you're on the clock; I don't take those longer breaks to get a coffee, it's right behind me. I take shorter lunches, it's right there behind me. (etc.) People who are not tenured remote employees are still struggling to find a healthy life balance as they've spent 20 years working in an office.

My company (~10k, global, mix of hourly and salaried) has multiple times sent out pandemic guidance asking people to take more time off and stop working so much, they see the extra hours in their time tracking tooling upstream (and it's not a financial play, they're targeting the salaried).

Re: Why do so many people want us back in the office?

#96

Post by marcinzm » Sat, Sep 12, 2020, 2:46 PM UTC

derefr wrote: post #86

I feel like most people who want to go back to working in an office, don’t really need an office per se — in the sense of needing to rent out a unit or floor of a building for their company to work out of. Most of the advantages that individual knowledge-workers attain from an office — work-life separation, and meeting rooms in which to come together with others for a scheduled semi-private conversation — already hav…

>Who doesn't think libraries are a valid substitute for offices?

Anyone who enjoys having a personalized ergonomic workspace that fits their needs. Working on a laptop 8 hours a day is going to be terrible for your body long term.

>without also becoming feudal lords.

You really underestimate what people given power, implicit or explicit, can do with it. Once you're able to tell people what work they should do, you have a lot of power to wield as you wish.

Re: Why do so many people want us back in the office?

#97

Post by ketzu » Sat, Sep 12, 2020, 2:48 PM UTC

rwmj wrote: post #80

ketzu wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Number one reason for me is the separation of work and private life. It's so much easier to keep work from creeping into my private life when it happens in a totally different place. I also miss the social interactions, discussion with colleagues is much easier in person. Lastly, I hope it will reduce the amount of video conferences that crept up considerably. edit: Not OP obviously. edit2: Note: Just to make sure, I…

I've worked at home for 20 years, more or less, and I have a separate space (garden office), $300 conference camera and mic, huge screen, and the best internet connection possible. When this is your life you arrange things differently, and I've no doubt that others who make the change to working from home will make similar adjustments over time.

I could work with it if I was forced to do it, which I was for a few months. If I had to do it for an even longer period, a separate room would probably be necessary. But having a "black space" room is not exactly something I want in my private space either. (Not to think about my work most likely not willing to pay rent for that room :D )

I know this is a personal preference, but for me, physical distance makes my work more productive and my private time more relaxing.

Re: Why do so many people want us back in the office?

#98

Post by mattlondon » Sat, Sep 12, 2020, 2:49 PM UTC

weeksie wrote: post #85

mattlondon wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not so sure productivity has definitely improved. I agree there was a good head of steam where people were able to quietly and independently work through their "list" of stuff they wanted to do for ages but never had the chance to etc, or whatever had previously been planned out. Now months later I feel like things are starting to grind a bit and productivity is starting to wane because the "pipe" is starting to…

I'm talking about macro level gains. When your small local accountant figures out how to manage work from home a few days per week that creates small, cumulative gains over the whole of the economy. Hard to quantify right now, especially because of all the noise going on. i.e. GDP is currently getting slaughtered for reasons other than lack of productive business practices. I do think that it's harder to notice from…

> When your small local accountant figures out how to manage work from home a few days per week that creates small, cumulative gains

But what are those gains you get from working from home? The only "real" one I can think of is no commute ... but that removes productivity from the businesses now failing and going bankrupt because they have no/reduced customers.

Plus the commute is not just dead time, at least for me I usually triage my inbox before I arrive at the office. Now I just waste time and have an extra bowl of cereal it read the internet for half an hour instead of doing anything useful.

Re: Why do so many people want us back in the office?

#99

Post by balfirevic » Sat, Sep 12, 2020, 2:53 PM UTC

leetcrew wrote: post #66

mcphilip wrote: post #18

I think ideally it should be up to the employee to return when they feel safe. That being said, I look forward to going back to the office. It’ll be nice to see people again —- few people bother to turn on their video on zoom anymore for anything other than one-on-ones, myself included, and that is starting to feel alienating to me. I don’t think it’s wise having a policy that you must have video enabled, though, it’…

> I think ideally it should be up to the employee to return when they feel safe. agree, but not as an explicit company policy. what I mean is, if the company officially says something like "the office is open, but you don't have to come back until you feel safe", this can put pressure on employees to agree that they feel safe. if you're one of the last people to return, maybe you start feeling pressure to give some s…

> I just can't see how it can be a net harm for remote workers to cook themselves hot lunches every day

How is it not net harm to have to do a chore that you didn't have to do before?

Re: Why do so many people want us back in the office?

#100

Post by derefr » Sat, Sep 12, 2020, 2:55 PM UTC

marcinzm wrote: post #96

derefr wrote: post #86

I feel like most people who want to go back to working in an office, don’t really need an office per se — in the sense of needing to rent out a unit or floor of a building for their company to work out of. Most of the advantages that individual knowledge-workers attain from an office — work-life separation, and meeting rooms in which to come together with others for a scheduled semi-private conversation — already hav…

>Who doesn't think libraries are a valid substitute for offices? Anyone who enjoys having a personalized ergonomic workspace that fits their needs. Working on a laptop 8 hours a day is going to be terrible for your body long term. >without also becoming feudal lords. You really underestimate what people given power, implicit or explicit, can do with it. Once you're able to tell people what work they should do, you ha…

> Working on a laptop 8 hours a day is going to be terrible for your body long term.

Libraries have computer workstations with proper ergonomics. Bring your laptop and a long HDMI cable. Push the workstation’s keyboard and mouse back. Plug your laptop into the monitor with the HDMI cable, then set the laptop down where the workstation’s keyboard was. Switch the input on the monitor to your laptop. (Ignore the laptop’s screen; don’t try to use it as a secondary display. It’s too low; you’ll hurt your neck.)

Since you’re not unplugging anything from the workstation, you won’t even have to ask permission from the library IT staff first to do this. It’s just like using a USB stick.

Alternately, bring one of those HDMI “compute sticks” and your own Bluetooth keyboard and mouse paired to it. You won’t get the same level of compute power that you’d get from your laptop, but you will get slightly better input ergonomics. Fine if your work is cloud-based.

Alternately, sign up for (or get your company to sign up for) a cloud Desktop-as-a-Service service, e.g. Amazon WorkSpaces. Then VNC/RDP into your workstation from any old library computer. Even the 10-year-old Dells with Celerons are powerful enough to support VNC streaming; and, given that you’re at a public library, relying on the wired Internet means you avoid the bottleneck of the single overloaded wi-fi AP everyone else is contending over.

Certainly, these workstations aren’t personalized; but they won’t kill your back/neck.

> Once you're able to tell people what work they should do, you have a lot of power to wield as you wish.

The simple difference between a manager and an executive assistant is that the manager hires the team, but the team hires the executive assistant.

It’s the same as the difference between monarchy and democracy: subjects live at the sufferance of their monarch, but a president commands at the sufferance of their people. If you can fire your boss, they’re not really your boss.