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Apple: Apps should not require users to opt into tracking to access content

developer.apple.com

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Re: Apple: Apps should not require users to opt into tracking to access content

#181

Post by Nextgrid »

kinkrtyavimoodh wrote: post #146
reaperducer wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Life is too short for you to press Settings > Privacy > Location Services > app > enable? Are you on life support or something?

I won't know to do that if the app doesn't tell me. How do I know it's not a bug and a problem with the permissions instead? Especially if the problem does not occur immediately after denying the permission

Ideally a well-designed app would only ask for the permission the first time the feature requiring that permission is used so it becomes obvious as to why the feature doesn't work; but in either case the app can display an error message with instructions on how to grant the permission.

Re: Apple: Apps should not require users to opt into tracking to access content

#182

Post by closeparen »

dathinab wrote: post #25

I do not think Apple should have the power to do such decisions. I do not like tracking at all. But I think this is something which needs to be handled by governments (laws/regulations) not by apple forcing their opinion about what is right onto everyone else by abusing their marked positions. In this case it might be beneficial for the users. In others cases it was not beneficial for the users at all but only for ap…

An opinion about what is right is a lot less dangerous as one option in a competitive marketplace vs. the law of the land.

Re: Apple: Apps should not require users to opt into tracking to access content

#183

Post by actuator »

flukus wrote: post #139
ffpip wrote: post #10

Such things are never going to come to Android are they? Every preinstalled app abuses every permission possible

With android the tracking is baked into the OS, I'd worry about that before worrying about apps with less permissions.

I have been using Android for a long time, I don't find this to be true. Can you qualify as to what Google collects on a standard Pixel phone which they don't ask for?

Re: Apple: Apps should not require users to opt into tracking to access content

#184

Post by JiNCMG »

pier25 wrote: post #106
Nextgrid wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it comes to YouTube the waters are muddy. The YouTube app is just a client to a third-party web service (whose functionality falls outside of App Store rules); so in this case it can be argued that the "functionality" of the app is just the client functionality and not the content itself. Furthermore you can skip ads on YouTube after a 5-second timer, so this seems reasonably fair, though I would still not insta…

> so in this case it can be argued that the "functionality" of the app is just the client functionality and not the content itself The problem is that companies like Google are able to get away with it, but not small developers.

Because Google And Apple have come to an agreement. Same with Amazon and Apple as well as Amazon and Google (Youtube is finally on FireStick). Also it's not the size of the business but the value of your product and how much you are willing to give into the deal. Epic wanted to cut Apple completed out from IAP as well as get full OS level access with no Apple approval or supervision over the Epic Store that will be selling other developers apps. What kind of deal was that?

Re: Apple: Apps should not require users to opt into tracking to access content

#185

Post by actuator »

dheera wrote: post #34
ffpip wrote: post #10

Such things are never going to come to Android are they? Every preinstalled app abuses every permission possible

With most Android devices, at least you have the option to install a different OS (e.g. LineageOS) that allows you to spoof all such data, including to Google, which IMO provides a better level of safeguarding against tracking. With iOS, the closed source OS and lack of alternatives fundamentally means that Apple Inc. gets to secretly violate your privacy while they play the moral high ground. Ultimately the best sec…

I agree with this completely. The best security is and when we can load a custom open source OS where we can see what is going on inside.

The OS doesn't control what apps am I allowed to install, the OS just takes care of the apps being limited to what the user gave them permission for.

Re: Apple: Apps should not require users to opt into tracking to access content

#186

Post by easton »

Nextgrid wrote: post #172
threeseed wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has been possible to run OSX on PCs for quite a few years now courtesy of the Clover and OpenCore apps. There have been countless Github projects, websites, forums etc dedicated to providing material assistance in using them. At no point has Apple ever gone after the websites or individuals despite it being fairly trivial to do so e.g. DCMA or cease and desist letter. In fact Craig Federighi has gone on the record…

> Craig Federighi has gone on the record stating that they fully support people hacking the Mac, OSX etc Source?

Video, but: https://www.macrumors.com/2020/06/25/talk-show-wwdc-gruber-f...

Re: Apple: Apps should not require users to opt into tracking to access content

#187

Post by JiNCMG »

Nextgrid wrote: post #174
austhrow743 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to the same effect. It means if developers don’t want to play by Apple’s rules they don’t have to completely surrender the iOS market. A big enough name could just direct users to the third party App Store.

I would definitely expect a "Facebook Store" to appear if side-loading was allowed which would not only host the Facebook app itself but also provide a safe haven for all of the privacy-violating crap (in fact I'd argue that their review process would require your app to contain the FB SDK for it to be accepted).

Just as bad is the puppet master behind Epic... Tencent. They are dying to get all of their WeChat apps into iOS.

Re: Apple: Apps should not require users to opt into tracking to access content

#188

Post by actuator »

ffpip wrote: post #10

Such things are never going to come to Android are they? Every preinstalled app abuses every permission possible

As some others have mentioned, this is not true at all for phones like Pixel at least.

Last I checked, I had to provide permission to each app that came in the phone. I can deny access to location to even Google Maps.

I think Google largely went wrong with Pixel 4 hardware, but my three year old Pixel 2 still runs sharp and I have always wondered why it didn't grab a bigger share of Android pie.

Re: Apple: Apps should not require users to opt into tracking to access content

#189

Post by JiNCMG »

systemvoltage wrote: post #130
dayjobpork wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realise Apple could still do this in their app store AND allow 3rd party app stores?

That's a terrifying idea. Horrifying. I absolutely detest this idea of third party app stores. Please tell me why this is a good idea when literally your entire life and its contents are contained in this palm sized device. Do you really want sideloading of apps that asks average joes for ransomware? We already have another sandbox - browsers. And you're seeing problems with extensions, popups, .dmg downloads and .ex…

Know who wants 3rd Party App Stores? All the Security App Vendors. Malwarebytes at the gate!

Re: Apple: Apps should not require users to opt into tracking to access content

#190

Post by systemvoltage »

dylan-m wrote: post #147
systemvoltage wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually want a phone with absolutely no app store. Just browser is fine. Given the amount of information it holds, adding any kind of apps that allow system wide access is horrifying to me. Since we don't have such phones, the next best thing is a store run by a company that can have security staff, highly paid security engineers and a whole bunch of people trying to make it secure than some reddit group that want…

App store reviewers are not the people you should be trusting to make your phone secure. They can and do make mistakes, because their job is to go through a checklist, look for things they don't like, and maybe run some analysis tools that other people wrote. (I'm guessing, of course: this process is completely invisible to the general public). The people who should be making your iPhone secure are the developers at…

App store reviews are executing the policies and tools that security engineers built. Whether it is a human checking these policies or automated scripts doing it, the point is that the policies governing those filtering processes are conceptualized, written and developed by experts that know what they're doing and they get paid a handsome amount [250k USD and upwards]. You're also switching from AppStore to the whole device. The device is secure because of things like T2 chip and billions that probably went into making it possible.

It's really obvious to me which is more secure - a 2 trillion dollar company with vested interest and one of the key selling points, that is privacy; or ... literally anything else.

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