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Apple: Apps should not require users to opt into tracking to access content

developer.apple.com

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Re: Apple: Apps should not require users to opt into tracking to access content

#101

Post by renewiltord »

reaperducer wrote: post #97
renewiltord wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, but I don't want that as a user. If I accidentally say "Deny Location Permission" I want the app to say "I actually can't navigate for you without this, sorry. Want me to request the permission again?". I don't want to debug this shit - oh why is navigation not working? No thanks. Life's too short.

Life is too short for you to press Settings > Privacy > Location Services > app > enable? Are you on life support or something?

Haha, hilarious! But yes, I don't want to do that.

Re: Apple: Apps should not require users to opt into tracking to access content

#102

Post by Spivak »

kevinventullo wrote: post #51
Nextgrid wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it comes to YouTube the waters are muddy. The YouTube app is just a client to a third-party web service (whose functionality falls outside of App Store rules); so in this case it can be argued that the "functionality" of the app is just the client functionality and not the content itself. Furthermore you can skip ads on YouTube after a 5-second timer, so this seems reasonably fair, though I would still not insta…

That seems like a pretty big loophole if applied. Taken to the logical extreme, one could make an app that streams raw user inputs to a server and streams back a video output and be allowed to do whatever they like (albeit with horrendous performance).

I mean this is the main argument against game streaming and HN seems to take the 100% opposite opinion.

Re: Apple: Apps should not require users to opt into tracking to access content

#103

Post by hu3 »

reaperducer wrote: post #94
cblconfederate wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple profits from knowing their users' app/music/news/books/siri etc preferences and making purchase suggestions, don't they?

Sort of. Apple's recommendations are handled on-device. It's great for security, but the downside is that Apple News on my iPhone and Apple News on my computer don't have the same list of publications I dislike.

That's genius! Apple avoided developing synchronization of user data and got good PR for doing that.

I'm gonna try that with my clients. "Sir, I wont aggregate your store's point of sale data because it's more secure if the data never leaves the store. Now pay me a premium for the added security, thanks."

Re: Apple: Apps should not require users to opt into tracking to access content

#104

Post by sbuk »

cblconfederate wrote: post #81
NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a fairly simple cui bono aspect to this. Apple makes money by selling products to their users or taking a cut of the users' purchases in their marketplace. Facebook and Google, on the other hand, make most of their money by selling micro-segmented access to their user base to third parties. Which of these two kinds of companies stands to benefit from harvesting more data about their users whenever possible?

Apple profits from knowing their users' app/music/news/books/siri etc preferences and making purchase suggestions, don't they?

That's not quite the same as selling that information to political 'think tanks' to buy influence in an election.

Re: Apple: Apps should not require users to opt into tracking to access content

#105

Post by sneak »

beervirus wrote: post #14

Everybody complains about the walled garden, but damn I love to see things like this.

Note that “tracking” is used in an intentionally misleading way here. Apple’s guidelines expressly permit all sorts of silent, invisible, no-opt-in tracking within apps, and most apps in the app store embed this sort of spyware.

The term “tracking” in this instance refers to GPS or contacts permission and other such things that Apple has built an opt-in switch for.

Re: Apple: Apps should not require users to opt into tracking to access content

#106

Post by pier25 »

Nextgrid wrote: post #38
ggrrhh_ta wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't youtube, with its ads, violate this policy?

When it comes to YouTube the waters are muddy. The YouTube app is just a client to a third-party web service (whose functionality falls outside of App Store rules); so in this case it can be argued that the "functionality" of the app is just the client functionality and not the content itself. Furthermore you can skip ads on YouTube after a 5-second timer, so this seems reasonably fair, though I would still not insta…

> so in this case it can be argued that the "functionality" of the app is just the client functionality and not the content itself

The problem is that companies like Google are able to get away with it, but not small developers.

Re: Apple: Apps should not require users to opt into tracking to access content

#107

Post by sizzle »

Nextgrid wrote: post #3

Full text of the clause: > 3.2.2 Unacceptable > (vi) Apps should allow a user to get what they’ve paid for without performing additional tasks, such as posting on social media, uploading contacts, checking in to the app a certain number of times, etc. Apps should not require users to rate the app, review the app, watch videos, download other apps, tap on advertisements, enable tracking, or take other similar actions…

Wow this is why my next phone will be an iphone, so sick of apps in Android play store pestering me to rate their app after completing an action in the app or forcing me to turn on location services when I can easily enter a zip code instead.

Re: Apple: Apps should not require users to opt into tracking to access content

#108

Post by beervirus »

sneak wrote: post #105
beervirus wrote: post #14

Everybody complains about the walled garden, but damn I love to see things like this.

Note that “tracking” is used in an intentionally misleading way here. Apple’s guidelines expressly permit all sorts of silent, invisible, no-opt-in tracking within apps, and most apps in the app store embed this sort of spyware. The term “tracking” in this instance refers to GPS or contacts permission and other such things that Apple has built an opt-in switch for.

What sort of "silent, invisible, no-opt-in tracking" does Apple allow?

Re: Apple: Apps should not require users to opt into tracking to access content

#109

Post by lern_too_spel »

anater wrote: post #96
lern_too_spel wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certainly. They use it in app store ads, to determine their own product development, and to market their products. On other platforms, I can install apps on my devices without telling anybody.

Which platforms?

Most Android distributions, most Linux distributions, Windows, etc.

Re: Apple: Apps should not require users to opt into tracking to access content

#110

Post by lern_too_spel »

anater wrote: post #99
izacus wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They advertise a whole product which draws all this tracking data as nice graphs to developers: https://developer.apple.com/app-store-connect/analytics/ It's essentially Google Analytics, just for apps on iOS. Where do you think those "Daily active devices" data comes from?

Users must opt in though. It’s part of the iOS set up to allow this and you can change it any time

This setting is opt out, not opt-in. It's unclear if opting out hides the data from Apple or just from the app developers.
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