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Apple: Apps should not require users to opt into tracking to access content

developer.apple.com

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Re: Apple: Apps should not require users to opt into tracking to access content

#51

Post by kevinventullo »

Nextgrid wrote: post #38
ggrrhh_ta wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't youtube, with its ads, violate this policy?

When it comes to YouTube the waters are muddy. The YouTube app is just a client to a third-party web service (whose functionality falls outside of App Store rules); so in this case it can be argued that the "functionality" of the app is just the client functionality and not the content itself. Furthermore you can skip ads on YouTube after a 5-second timer, so this seems reasonably fair, though I would still not insta…

That seems like a pretty big loophole if applied. Taken to the logical extreme, one could make an app that streams raw user inputs to a server and streams back a video output and be allowed to do whatever they like (albeit with horrendous performance).

Re: Apple: Apps should not require users to opt into tracking to access content

#52

Post by Nextgrid »

ATsch wrote: post #50

This is already legally required by GDPR but I guess it's good for apple to check for it.

The GDPR so far doesn't have any enforcement for stuff like this. All the links to "enforcement tracker" (which I'm sure someone will reply with down below) have been either about a technicality like a badly worded privacy policy or the amount of the fine was peanuts compared to the size of the offending company.

Re: Apple: Apps should not require users to opt into tracking to access content

#54

Post by matsemann »

donarb wrote: post #39
DoofusOfDeath wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find that policy entirely acceptable, for the same reasons I think shrink-wrap EULAs should be illegal. This makes me curious about Apple and iOS / OS X. Does Apple try to require that the user accepts an EULA for the OS after buying Apple hardware?

All of Apple's EULAs are published on their website. You can download the PDFs and read through them before you decide to purchase software that Apple creates and sells. https://www.apple.com/legal/sla/

EULA's are basically unenforceable in Europe, so why bother. For a contract to be valid it has to be understood by both parties, be reasonable etc., and in many countries forcing arbitration on consumer matters is invalid (don't know if Apple has those terms, but many do). Forcing a consumer to read 20+ pages of legalese for each purchase, each app they download etc. is just not feasible.

Re: Apple: Apps should not require users to opt into tracking to access content

#55

Post by derefr »

kevinventullo wrote: post #51
Nextgrid wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it comes to YouTube the waters are muddy. The YouTube app is just a client to a third-party web service (whose functionality falls outside of App Store rules); so in this case it can be argued that the "functionality" of the app is just the client functionality and not the content itself. Furthermore you can skip ads on YouTube after a 5-second timer, so this seems reasonably fair, though I would still not insta…

That seems like a pretty big loophole if applied. Taken to the logical extreme, one could make an app that streams raw user inputs to a server and streams back a video output and be allowed to do whatever they like (albeit with horrendous performance).

Apple already declared a policy against game-streaming service apps; presumably specifically to avoid this loophole where the ads, purchases, etc. are happening “remotely” and so Apple can’t get a cut of them.

Presumably, if anyone tried to build a service for “streaming” non-game apps, that wouldn’t be allowed on the App Store either.

Re: Apple: Apps should not require users to opt into tracking to access content

#56

Post by derefr »

dheera wrote: post #34
ffpip wrote: post #10

Such things are never going to come to Android are they? Every preinstalled app abuses every permission possible

With most Android devices, at least you have the option to install a different OS (e.g. LineageOS) that allows you to spoof all such data, including to Google, which IMO provides a better level of safeguarding against tracking. With iOS, the closed source OS and lack of alternatives fundamentally means that Apple Inc. gets to secretly violate your privacy while they play the moral high ground. Ultimately the best sec…

It’s hard to prove that this is a fix (i.e. I can prove it for my device, but your device might be special), but you can always just install a VPN app that doesn’t actually connect to a VPN, but rather acts in a LittleSnitch-alike way to the traffic it’s proxying.

I believe this is, in part, how CloudFlare’s 1.1.1.1 app works on iOS.

Re: Apple: Apps should not require users to opt into tracking to access content

#57

Post by RcouF1uZ4gsC »

This is one of the reasons, I am actually in favor of only having the App Store on Apple. As soon as you have another way to distribute apps on the iPhone, app developers will try to migrate to the less privacy conscious store that lets them do all their dark patterns.

Sometimes, let the consumer choose does not work. For example, if governments did not regulate kids products and just said let the consumer choose, the market would be filled with unsafe products. Sometimes you need someone enforcing standards.

Apple’s enforcement of standards is one of the big reasons why I choose their ecosystem.

Re: Apple: Apps should not require users to opt into tracking to access content

#58

Post by pieno »

kevinventullo wrote: post #51
Nextgrid wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it comes to YouTube the waters are muddy. The YouTube app is just a client to a third-party web service (whose functionality falls outside of App Store rules); so in this case it can be argued that the "functionality" of the app is just the client functionality and not the content itself. Furthermore you can skip ads on YouTube after a 5-second timer, so this seems reasonably fair, though I would still not insta…

That seems like a pretty big loophole if applied. Taken to the logical extreme, one could make an app that streams raw user inputs to a server and streams back a video output and be allowed to do whatever they like (albeit with horrendous performance).

They've thought of that loophole and closed it already ;-) Basically you can only stream from a device that is owned by the user/owner of the iPhone/iPad on the same LAN, and you should not use streaming to mimic a thin client of a cloud app. See rule 4.7.2 on Remote Desktop Clients.

(Note: this does not apply for "generic" remote desktop clients that are not intended to stream specific apps or services, such as the generic Microsoft Remote Desktop Client for iOS.)

Re: Apple: Apps should not require users to opt into tracking to access content

#59

Post by birthdaydog »

ProAm wrote: post #37
slipheen wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That really does seem like whataboutism. No one is claiming Apple is perfect, but this is a marked improvement of apps requiring tracking to function.

[flagged]

This is exactly whataboutism.

Re: Apple: Apps should not require users to opt into tracking to access content

#60

Post by wvenable »

cmeacham98 wrote: post #13
ffpip wrote: post #10

Such things are never going to come to Android are they? Every preinstalled app abuses every permission possible

Pre-installed apps where you can't disable them or revoke their permissions are a cancer on the Android ecosystem. Especially fun when they have permissions like "access the filesystem" or "obtain device location" or "send notifications".

Are there pre-installed apps you can't disable? I have a bunch disabled on my phone.
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