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I don’t have time for coding challenges

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Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#51

Post by fractionalhare »

wry_discontent wrote: post #39
52-6F-62 wrote: post #30

I'm of the opinion that if there needs to be some objective technical challenge to determine a baseline of competency (and there are very many, very strong arguments for that) then there need to be standards. I've encountered so many variables (no pun intended) in technical interviews that I've virtually stopped preparing. There's hardly any way to prepare when the field is so large and you never really know what you…

I interview a lot of people for frontend positions. I ask one two-sum question to see if they have some knowledge about data structures and simple algorithms. Then I ask them to build something trivial in React, which is what we use. If you can do those things, you're probably fine. The number of people who can't is truly shocking.

I would argue there are many well-qualified frontend engineers who won't correctly solve the two sum problem on their first time encountering it.

Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#53

Post by dhairya »

itronitron wrote: post #47
dhairya wrote: post #14

I agree that code challenges aren't ideal. But we've been struggling with parsing resumes and titles to identify the competency of developers. Our current coding challenge isn't super hard and based on the type of code you'd see in our product. It asks you to read a simple javascript function, explain it, and then implement new functionality that can built by refactoring the existing method. It's about 20 lines of co…

For advanced roles I'd suggest separating out the evaluation of coding ability from the evaluation of a particular language. Let the candidate pick their language when you want to test how well they can write new code, and then do a separate evaluation of how deep they are on the language and technical stack you are using.

I agree with the sentiment. Honestly we don't check for syntax or even require the code to compile. We let the candidate write puesdo code which usally isn't super far python and javascript implementations of our challenge. We try to pay attention to the types of questions the candidates asks about context of the code and choices they make in designing a solution.

That being said i'd be curious how you evaluate general software engineering ability (e.g. writing clean abstractions, decomposing monolithic methods, and general design). I feel most system design evaluations are a bit too high level or overly broad (e.g. design a library application or make a social network) and coding challenge are too low level.

Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#54

Post by soneca »

I think the best hiring process would give the candidate options. Choose among pair-programming a live coding challenge or a new feature creation, whiteboard, take-home coding challenges, or going through some open-source project from the candidate.

I happen to prefer take-home challenges more than any of the alternatives. It’s much less stressful than any live assessment. And I have the time.

But I understand people that hate it. You evaluate the candidate how they think they are best evaluated. And I don’t think it is that much more trouble or time investment by the company.

Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#55

Post by simplyinfinity »

I'm currently in the interview process with few companies, here's my experience with them:

Company 1:

1 hour HR interview

Coding task spend about 4 hours on it, at first i implemented basic but correct implementation, no OOD & design patters or anything fancy. They said i should redo it but with SOLID OOD and design patterns + unit tests, so i threw in the most convoluted code i could think of for a console app. That did the job and got to the next part.

3 hour technical interview, ~2 hours of HR talk & getting to know me, then a set of 5 algorithms tasks. I failed at some point, as i'm not fan of algorithms tasks and i don't have CS education, so my algorithms knowledge isn't strong.

Result : Not qualified enough no offer

Company 2:

1 hour HR interview

After which they sent me a task that would have taken me about 8-10 hours to do. I politely Declined.

Company 3: 1 HR interview 2 x 1hr technical interviews,

First technical interview : extend a very very simple code (2-3 classes) with couple of functionalities and write tests. All in all it took an hour and was pretty straightforward. With no hidden gotchas

Second technical interview : you are given task details, and have 20 minutes to come up with overall system design. after which we spend about 30 minutes going trough that and asking why i choose X or Y, or what if the requirements changed to X or Y.

then 1 hour final "culture fit" interview. Result: waiting for offer.

Company 4: 2 x 1 hour interviews with the CTO & CEO. Tech talk mostly, but no deep algo questions. What challenges I've had and how I've solved them. Result : waiting for offer.

Company 5: one 1 hour HR interview, and i have to do a 5 hours long fixed time (i.e. they sent tasks at 12:00 i have to be done by 5 and send results).

And i'm debating if i should do it at all.

I've had the most pleasant experience with companies 3 & 4. From their HR staff to their Interviewers.

About about me for context: I'm a backend/full stack engineer with about 10 years of experience. I've coded professionally in PHP, C# and JavaScript. I've led few interviews, but never used spend-a-day-doing-it code challenges.

Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#57

Post by AnimalMuppet »

luckylion wrote: post #23
geebee wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why people do it, no doubt. Keep in mind, a lot of these questions are asked by vastly less desirable companies that ape the hiring practices of FAANG, even though they pay much less. And these companies complain bitterly about a shortage of good developers to hire. So... I'm all onboard with your statement, but I think you only said half of it. Nobody owes me a job, and if I don't like it, I'm free to not get…

Do only those companies complain about a shortage of candidates? Because in the tech centers I know, the market is just empty. Lots of large companies are competing for talent, and if you can't pay bank salaries, you're going to have a hard time. You make it sound like there's plenty of talent around but companies are being snobbish. That's not my experience at all in Germany.

All the more reason for candidates to not do the coding challenges. If you can't find candidates, don't add stupid ways to reject candidates.

Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#58

Post by Keyframe »

wry_discontent wrote: post #39
52-6F-62 wrote: post #30

I'm of the opinion that if there needs to be some objective technical challenge to determine a baseline of competency (and there are very many, very strong arguments for that) then there need to be standards. I've encountered so many variables (no pun intended) in technical interviews that I've virtually stopped preparing. There's hardly any way to prepare when the field is so large and you never really know what you…

I interview a lot of people for frontend positions. I ask one two-sum question to see if they have some knowledge about data structures and simple algorithms. Then I ask them to build something trivial in React, which is what we use. If you can do those things, you're probably fine. The number of people who can't is truly shocking.

Same here. Absolutely shocking how many people fail at basics, yet they pose as mids or seniors even. I'm not even talking about CS, I'm taking about simple React-based assignments designed to show you know (at least) the basics and takes as little as time as possible to be fair from our side not taking too much of interviewee's time. Take what you want from it, but I've seen it mainly in web dev related positions.

Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#59

Post by spamizbad »

ergocoder wrote: post #5

Then, don't. I want to move from my 2000 USD a month (this is a good salary already) in a 3rd world country to a FAANG that pays 20k USD per month. I'm willing to go through any challenge because the reward is superb for me. Not to mention, without objective interview questions, an introverted non-native English speaker (who doesn't speak latin-germanic-based language) like me would fail most of these subjective ques…

As someone who had administered dozens of "objective" coding challenges to non-native english speakers... I can guarantee you your language skills will negatively impact your performance. So those tests aren't as objective as you think.

It comes up with questions that are as simple as "Create a function that deduplicates an array of integers"

Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#60

Post by fractionalhare »

frequentnapper wrote: post #41
ergocoder wrote: post #5

Then, don't. I want to move from my 2000 USD a month (this is a good salary already) in a 3rd world country to a FAANG that pays 20k USD per month. I'm willing to go through any challenge because the reward is superb for me. Not to mention, without objective interview questions, an introverted non-native English speaker (who doesn't speak latin-germanic-based language) like me would fail most of these subjective ques…

I don't know of any software company that would hire an introverted person who can't articulate themselves for 20k a month. This is how micro-service architected fully optimized solutions that solve the wrong problem happen. Do you really think the high value of a developer just comes from being able to pass coding challenges when there's millions of them out there?

Eh, each of FAANG will do exactly that (as will other tech companies!). To be charitable to the parent commenter's point, they probably mean articulate in two senses:

1. Speaking perfect English, both fluently and without a heavy accent.

2. Talking about technical topics or other shibboleths with the same cultural affect an American would, as opposed to a foreigner. For example, many Indians will call a phone screen a "telephonic interview", and I've personally seen Americans react poorly to that.

I know lots of developers who are very well paid and very effective in their jobs, but they don't speak English as well as an American and would stumble at certain cultural nuances.

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