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I don’t have time for coding challenges

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Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#11
It's a tough problem, but eventually you have to demonstrate some sort of competency. White board, open source contributions, homework. There has to be some way of demonstrating you know what you are doing.

I'm a consultant so I've been through tons of interviews at this point in my career (21+ years).

If I had my choice? I'd pair program with my potential teammates on a bug/feature for the product I'd be working on.

Give me something real that's been in the backlog for a while, and we'll pair on it for the allotted time.

Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#12

Then, don't. I want to move from my 2000 USD a month (this is a good salary already) in a 3rd world country to a FAANG that pays 20k USD per month. I'm willing to go through any challenge because the reward is superb for me. Not to mention, without objective interview questions, an introverted non-native English speaker (who doesn't speak latin-germanic-based language) like me would fail most of these subjective ques…

That's why people do it, no doubt. Keep in mind, a lot of these questions are asked by vastly less desirable companies that ape the hiring practices of FAANG, even though they pay much less. And these companies complain bitterly about a shortage of good developers to hire.

So... I'm all onboard with your statement, but I think you only said half of it. Nobody owes me a job, and if I don't like it, I'm free to not get hired. Nobody owes a company an employee either, and if candidates don't don't like it, the company is free to not hire. Zero sympathy for companies that do this and complain about a shortage of candidates.

Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#13
Time is money.

If you make about $100 an hour, a six hour coding challenge costs you about $600.

If a potential employer asked you to spend $600 to fly out and see them, on your dime, would you do it?

I would do it IF I desperately needed a job. I did it back during the dot com crash; I needed a job badly and I was willing to roll the dice.

In 2020? Oh hell no. There's a million companies who are hiring, and an employer would have to be exceptionally special for me to waste $600 on the chance they'll hire me.

Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#14
I agree that code challenges aren't ideal. But we've been struggling with parsing resumes and titles to identify the competency of developers. Our current coding challenge isn't super hard and based on the type of code you'd see in our product. It asks you to read a simple javascript function, explain it, and then implement new functionality that can built by refactoring the existing method. It's about 20 lines of code and 50 lines of documentation. You can use any IDE that you like.

We've had many candidates that look strong on paper (3+ years of experience, senior titles, etc) come in and struggle. Struggles ranged from basic code literacy (think for loop to traverse a nested json object) to basic programming like writing a function. We've especially noticed this more with coders coming from purely a javascript and front-end background (React/Angular, etc). They understand control structures like if/else but struggle with loops, setting variables, and basic higher level concepts like breaking a problem into smaller functions.

My philosophy is for junior candidates, any level of competency is ok. Strong mentoring and experience on job usually can allow anyone to thrive and so you can prioritize soft skills and culture. But for more advanced roles, I don't know, it's hard to parse out the quality candidates without having some sort of technical interview. Definitely would love to hear how other's learning and experiences.

Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#15
I think one can be creative about it. Applying the principle "nobody wants to buy a 2 inch drill bit; what they want is a 2 inch round hole", the people in the company do not want to give you a coding test, they want to hire a competent candidate. So convince them you are competent for the job in other ways if you do not want to spend the time doing the coding challenge.

One way of going about about it is to find former colleagues that work for the company you are applying to, and ask them to provide references on your behalf.

Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#16
post #8

> Have a probationary period That seems very taxing on the company. I'd rather screen the candidate before committing to anything via interview/coding challenge, etc... The take-home coding challenge seems like a good idea -- less pressure than coding during the interview and allows the interviewer to assess the "real life" performance. > Ask them to build something – anything! That's great, but a big part of working…

The probationary period seems incredibly stressful for the employee. If I am currently employed I would never switch to a role that uses a probationary period as a significant evaluation step because of the risks of leaving my stable employment, and not passing your probationary period. As an employer I wouldn’t want to limit my selection to people that either are unemployed or have a higher personal risk tolerance to handle such situations.

Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#17
post #6

The proposed solution to me, is much worse. > Ask them to build something – anything! > Instead of a coding challenge, ask them to spend a short time building something they enjoy, and talk about what they did and why. To me this would be a MUCH more difficult task. A blank canvas is much harder to work with, and downright frightening. Constraints foster creativity. Having everyone code the same thing helps the inter…

The difference is the interviewer is being paid for their time, the interviewee is not.

Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#18

I disagree with the author. A coding challenge is a good way to judge how a candidate approaches a problem. The ability to walk through what you’re thinking while you’re doing it is a great judge of ability. It also helps to weed out people who can’t actually program, this comes up annoyingly often. I agree that having intentional errors in a starter repository is bad though.

You can also have a discussion one how one would approach the problem vs actually doing the coding. The discussion alone would give great insight into how the applicant understands the whole concept, and any potential pitfalls that can be anticipated, etc.

Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#19
post #8

> Have a probationary period That seems very taxing on the company. I'd rather screen the candidate before committing to anything via interview/coding challenge, etc... The take-home coding challenge seems like a good idea -- less pressure than coding during the interview and allows the interviewer to assess the "real life" performance. > Ask them to build something – anything! That's great, but a big part of working…

> That seems very taxing on the company. I'd rather screen the candidate before committing to anything via interview/coding challenge

So having a probationary period is too expensive for the company, but a several hours coding challenge for the developer is a OK?

In my experience when a candidate was a bad fit, it was because of soft skills/personality traits not technical chops (which are much easier to learn than soft skills). Are you screening for soft skills in the coding challenge?

Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#20
post #11

It's a tough problem, but eventually you have to demonstrate some sort of competency. White board, open source contributions, homework. There has to be some way of demonstrating you know what you are doing. I'm a consultant so I've been through tons of interviews at this point in my career (21+ years). If I had my choice? I'd pair program with my potential teammates on a bug/feature for the product I'd be working on.…

This sounds good, but it will not work for many jobs. Fixing a bug in a code base that you don't recognize is more difficult that a well defined coding problem. Candidates will be limited to the technologies and problems which they are already familiar.

This approach has some value, but it can't be the only way to evaluate candidates.

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