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I don’t have time for coding challenges

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Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#31

Post by dhairya »

dhairya wrote: post #14

I agree that code challenges aren't ideal. But we've been struggling with parsing resumes and titles to identify the competency of developers. Our current coding challenge isn't super hard and based on the type of code you'd see in our product. It asks you to read a simple javascript function, explain it, and then implement new functionality that can built by refactoring the existing method. It's about 20 lines of co…

Another we'd love to hear opinions on. Based on a recent study where candidates are more likely to succeed if given private space and time to work on the problem, we'll disclose the coding challenge about 15 minutes prior to the interview allow the candidate to read it before joining the call. We struggle with the right amount of time provided for private review is. We want to be fair to all candidates and not implicitly favor candidates who have more free time to dedicate to the interview process than others. but at same time provide some sort of reflection space outside of a cold start to the challenge.

Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#32

Post by djsumdog »

I usually tell interviewers I don't do per-interview assignments. I'll often e-mail them a list of current open source taks I'm working on, a paragraph with good requirements or a linked issue from an issue tracker. I'll list the programing language and framework and ask them to select from the list. I'll complete my task, with tests, and do a full presentation.

Universally I get turned down. "You have to do our assignment." Oh and I'll usually offer to do their assignment for $300. That doesn't go well either.

Only one company took me up on this offer, and it's the one I work for. (They didn't even ask me to complete one of my tasks, they just looked at the project I authored and said that was fine; and scheduled a full interview).

The few times I have actually done these assignments, I've never gotten the job.

Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#33

Post by frequentnapper »

52-6F-62 wrote: post #30

I'm of the opinion that if there needs to be some objective technical challenge to determine a baseline of competency (and there are very many, very strong arguments for that) then there need to be standards. I've encountered so many variables (no pun intended) in technical interviews that I've virtually stopped preparing. There's hardly any way to prepare when the field is so large and you never really know what you…

the FAANG interviews are pretty standardized now - but then that only selects candidates who are well prepped for the interview itself.

Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#34

Post by x87678r »

52-6F-62 wrote: post #30

I'm of the opinion that if there needs to be some objective technical challenge to determine a baseline of competency (and there are very many, very strong arguments for that) then there need to be standards. I've encountered so many variables (no pun intended) in technical interviews that I've virtually stopped preparing. There's hardly any way to prepare when the field is so large and you never really know what you…

> that I've virtually stopped preparing

Surely this is a good thing, no way for people to game the system and no time wasted.

Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#35

Post by ithkuil »

cosmotic wrote: post #17
syspec wrote: post #6

The proposed solution to me, is much worse. > Ask them to build something – anything! > Instead of a coding challenge, ask them to spend a short time building something they enjoy, and talk about what they did and why. To me this would be a MUCH more difficult task. A blank canvas is much harder to work with, and downright frightening. Constraints foster creativity. Having everyone code the same thing helps the inter…

The difference is the interviewer is being paid for their time, the interviewee is not.

Then pay the candidate! It might seem ridiculous but consider how much time is spent by interviewers, hiring committees etc, giving some fraction of that out even to utterly worthless candidates might not be the worst idea in the world. A side effect of this is that suddenly the cost of a bad screening becomes more intuitive

Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#36

Post by 52-6F-62 »

x87678r wrote: post #34
52-6F-62 wrote: post #30

I'm of the opinion that if there needs to be some objective technical challenge to determine a baseline of competency (and there are very many, very strong arguments for that) then there need to be standards. I've encountered so many variables (no pun intended) in technical interviews that I've virtually stopped preparing. There's hardly any way to prepare when the field is so large and you never really know what you…

> that I've virtually stopped preparing Surely this is a good thing, no way for people to game the system and no time wasted.

Oh no. I've wasted plenty of time. And so have they by interviewing me and proposing ludicrous problems well outside of the problem domain of the role I was interviewing for.

I understand some problems are meant to judge your thought process, others are meant to measure your basic literacy. I'm not talking about those, however.

My experience in interviews has been that most of them are engineers pulled into the process who searched the web for "software developer interview questions technical" and cobbled together a few disparate options without a moments concern more.

Then again, those kinds of interviews have certainly cemented my desire not to work there.

Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#37

Post by geebee »

dhairya wrote: post #14

I agree that code challenges aren't ideal. But we've been struggling with parsing resumes and titles to identify the competency of developers. Our current coding challenge isn't super hard and based on the type of code you'd see in our product. It asks you to read a simple javascript function, explain it, and then implement new functionality that can built by refactoring the existing method. It's about 20 lines of co…

I've heard a variant of this repeatedly. A company justifies technical exam style interviews on the grounds that many people who look good on paper "can't code". Meaning, can't program fizz buzz. Can't write a method or function. Can't write a loop, or an if/else conditional.

But I can do all these things. I've gotten bounced from my interviews because (this was the official reason, anyway) I didn't get far enough with the coding in finding all matching subtrees in a binary tree, in 45 minutes, at the whiteboard.

Companies should feel free to hire based on my ability to do this, they should not say they were just testing basic things like lists, loops, and conditionals, or even basic data structures and algorithms like binary trees or hash maps. These exams go way beyond that.

This may not be the case for all, and it sounds like it is not the case for your process. But in the broader industry practice, I smell a motte-and-bailey fallacy here.

Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#38

Post by andy99 »

bdcravens wrote: post #26

What other industries do something similar in their hiring process?

A family member is a chef, and for new jobs you have to "stage" [0] where you come and cook for a (unpaid) shift to see if you are a fit, have the skills, etc. To me this is exactly the same thing, and I expect this is very common across different kinds of jobs.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stage_(cooking)

Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#39

Post by wry_discontent »

52-6F-62 wrote: post #30

I'm of the opinion that if there needs to be some objective technical challenge to determine a baseline of competency (and there are very many, very strong arguments for that) then there need to be standards. I've encountered so many variables (no pun intended) in technical interviews that I've virtually stopped preparing. There's hardly any way to prepare when the field is so large and you never really know what you…

I interview a lot of people for frontend positions. I ask one two-sum question to see if they have some knowledge about data structures and simple algorithms. Then I ask them to build something trivial in React, which is what we use. If you can do those things, you're probably fine. The number of people who can't is truly shocking.
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