Live data from Hacker News

Tim Sweeney on Apple and Google

npr.org

341–350 of 456 posts

Re: Tim Sweeney on Apple and Google

#341
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, people are having a hissy fit over exclusive content that has no further price than downloading a free store app. It's like whingeing about driving to another store to get the brand of ice cream that you like. I have no problem with that as long as the device manufacturer doesn't limit me to a single store. Preferably I'd like to be able to choose any store or independent content. More choices, more freedom,…

Having to go to the EGS for a given exclusive game is not choice. It’s not freedom. It’s definitely not competition. Even if I buy a game broadly available on multiple platforms, I’m not getting a discount on it for going to EGS, despite their lower cut.

It is in fact those three things. Different stores compete with each other providing different value, both users and devs having the freedom to choose to support one or the other (or all) based on their personal criteria.

Re: Tim Sweeney on Apple and Google

#342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We don’t want phones to become botnets with microphones and cameras They already are. Walled gardens do nothing to prevent this.

They do a ton to prevent this. I’ve not heard of issues with botnets on IPhones or Macs

You don’t have botnets on iOS, but you do have the problem on OSX (can find many instances by googling it). The reason OSX have this problem is because they allow third-party app stores/installations. If Apple was forced to open up iOS then iPhones would also end up having all the same malware problems you see on Windows, OSX and Android.

Re: Tim Sweeney on Apple and Google

#343
post #324

Here's my "old-timer" take on the 30%: I used to develop games and apps for MS PocketPC. Our users could install apps straight from their PC to the PocketPC. But guess how apps were sold: through portals. These portals also took around 30% (Handango and PocketGear were the biggest ones back then). We were also selling straight from our website, where we could have had 0% cost. But guess what: We wanted to reach top 1…

Totally - the argument isn’t anything to do with developer’s not paying the 30% - it’s that a whole load of parties want to run their own stores without having to maintain the platform.

What "platform" is it exactly they don't want to maintain?

Re: Tim Sweeney on Apple and Google

#344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Windows/Epic situation really is the "best case scenario". You can download and install software from anywhere. Plus, there's an "app store" from the OS vendor, plus a few specality competing ones for things like games, where both consumers and developers have the choice of where they download/publish. Epic competing with Steam has been a great success for everyone I think. Developers get secure funding for games…

Epic games exclusives are not the kind of competing I want, and they're not a win/win/win. I'm happy to buy games on GOG or the Humble store for instance, but I will never in a million years install the privacy and security nightmare that is the Epic Game Store on a PC I own. Sure, steam is not perfect but they've not had issues on the scale of Epics software. I've played thousands of hours of Rocket League, but stil…

>but I will never in a million years install the privacy and security nightmare that is the Epic Game Store on a PC I own.

What issues?

Anyway, having to install a new launcher, as annoying as it is, is a far cry from throwing out your entire phone and all your apps, and buying a different phone (which has many of the same restrictions again).

I don't understand why people keep comparing the iOS App Store to the Epic Game Store exclusives, they not remotely the same.

Re: Tim Sweeney on Apple and Google

#345

Mr. Sweeney is welcome to make his own mobile operating system and charge whatever rate he wants. He's personally worth $5.3 billion. Surely that's enough to take Android Open Source Project and make his own version. It's easy to burn down a store that you think charges too much. It's harder to make a new store that people will like. Maybe take the high road, Mr. Sweeney.

Although this time his own OS should have basic features and lessons learned by prior entrants in that sector. Like, if you start an online store have such basic stuff as a shopping cart. Obvious stuff like that.

Re: Tim Sweeney on Apple and Google

#346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well of course you're going to prefer an anti-competitive approach if you view competition as burdensome. This has analogies in many industries. You should divorce your personal anti-competition desires from the non-personal discussion. Encouraging choice is often a better way to give more people what they want.

The competition is in the marketplace. I'm not sure what value there is in having an Epic store, an Apple store, a Google store, a Netflix store, a Microsoft Store... Having choice isn't always better. I think the Apple iOS store is a very clear example where choice leads to negative experience for users. As I've mentioned before, Apple collectively bargains on behalf of users against developers. They enforce (albeit…

>The iPhone is no more or less a computing device than those are

The iPad Pro, the iPad and iPhone is are not general computing devices, but more like gaming consoles? Wow.

Apart from that, gaming consoles subsidize or barely eke out a profit for their hardware, whereas Apple charges buyers a huge margin on the phones. I'll agree to the forced 30% cut if Apple cuts their phone prices by 50%.

Re: Tim Sweeney on Apple and Google

#347
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note how you can easily just go to another provider (Steam, GoG) to buy the same content. Something you are forever and ever forbidden from doing if Apples data collection and terms bother you.

for a lot of recent releases you can't, because epic have bought exclusivity they're complaining about monopolies, while attempting to create them

I don't think "epic bought exclusivity" is quite right. Epic store pays a larger percent of the purchase to developers than any other store. Developers really want you to buy their game on the epic store. That's the real reason epic exclusives exist, developers don't want steam taking their money. Epic gives them an advance as an excuse, but developers would not agree if they didn't want epic store to gain market share.

Re: Tim Sweeney on Apple and Google

#348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No. My whole point is that you're clearly happy in your benevolent dictatorship. I wouldn't call it that. I'm not really sure it's a dictatorship. But whatever. > But it really doesn't suite me. I just told you the reason I'm not happy, and you handily dismissed it as "not compelling". Which is fine. For you it probably isn't. For me, not having root on a device I own intended for general purpose computing is liter…

> Certainly disagree. Google has quite a few competitors, Amazon, Facebook, Apple itself (searching via Siri in iOS versus a web browser) not to mention incumbents like Bing and DDG who have taken a little bit of market share. There are alternatives that work just fine. As for Youtube, Spotify is coming after them and then you always have new products like TikTok, or streaming services like Twitch. Again, we don't sh…

> Again, we don't share the same perspective here. As a consumer, some of the products you've mentioned are acceptable substitutes. But I'm not just a consumer of digital products. I also produce them.

Sure, I'm looking at things from a more broad market perspective so naturally I won't look at the individual case you experience. In the case of search I see Google under tremendous pressure. If you start your search on Facebook or Amazon, that's lost revenue for Google. Those are insanely popular companies. The fact that you are looking strictly at web search and that marketshare I think causes your perspective to be different, and in my view inaccurate when looking at the entire marketplace. Put another way, I don't really care about declining monopolies.

> In Apple's case, I have to release on their app store. Except... wait a minute... I can't even try to promote a possible alternative! If you use an Iphone, you literally cannot choose to get my software through another channel. They are enforcing their own store monopoly with their software dictatorship. And just like a car, no one is going to go out and buy a completely different phone to use my one app. It's just not practical.

It would be nice if you stopped throwing around terms like dictatorship so casually, especially given the connotations around that (murder, genocide, human suffering, etc.). I don't really see how Apple is a dictator any more than any other company is. They create a product, the iPhone. That device has certain features and capabilities. The fact that you don't have an alternative is a feature of the phone, because as I mentioned above it forces a collective bargaining situation for Apple on behalf of users. Why do you need an alternative to Apple's distribution network, and why should you not have to pay Apple for access to a revenue stream that they actually create and maintain? It doesn't make sense to me whatsoever that you would have that perspective. You just want to have your cake and eat it too, and I think that's greedy and unfair.

> And just like a car, no one is going to go out and buy a completely different phone to use my one app. It's just not practical.

Its' very practical. You can do it in an instance. iPhones have very high resale value. But people would rather have the iPhone and its App Store, over access to multiple app stores via Android, hence why they bought an iPhone.

Re: Tim Sweeney on Apple and Google

#349
post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The competition is in the marketplace. I'm not sure what value there is in having an Epic store, an Apple store, a Google store, a Netflix store, a Microsoft Store... Having choice isn't always better. I think the Apple iOS store is a very clear example where choice leads to negative experience for users. As I've mentioned before, Apple collectively bargains on behalf of users against developers. They enforce (albeit…

Sacrificing freedom & rights for user experience and comfort, that's how we get dictatorships. Apple takes total control but we shouldn't worry because they are "the good guys" acting "on user behalf" ? We have to distinguish User Experience (short term comfort) from User Respect/Freedom/Rights. Choice is bad for UX, but it is good for avoiding abuses. If you download FB, Instagram, TikTok, etc. on the app store thos…

> Second : it's not about gaming only, it's about the right of people to control the device they bought.

I think most people don't really want that right. Myself included. I like the iPhone as it is and don't see any advantages to changing the operating model. Maybe if you're a developer you don't like it, so in that case I just say too bad and just don't develop for the iPhone if it isn't profitable for you.

All this talk about "freedom" and "rights" is quite a bit of misguided grandstanding if you ask me.

"I bought an Xbox, where are my rights as a general computing device!11!" Give me a break.

If you want all this stuff to "change' then go ahead and start with making Blizzard allow me to publish my independent games on their App Store with no review process and no revenue cut. Make Microsoft let me play Nintendo Switch games on my Xbox. Make game developers make all of their games cross-platform, no more Windows-exclusive games.

Re: Tim Sweeney on Apple and Google

#350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's clearly a difference between a company having exclusive control over how people access a particular game on a particular platform (eg Fortnite on Windows) and a company having control over how people access all software on a platform (eg everything on iOS and Apple).

I don’t think there’s that much of a difference, unless you want to legally classify a platform differently. Today no such legal classification exists.

How is there no difference between just installing a launcher vs throwing out your entire phone and apps?
Post reply on HN