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Ask HN: Why doesn't Starbucks beat local coffee shops?

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Re: Ask HN: Why doesn't Starbucks beat local coffee shops?

#31

Post by boneitis »

bigiain wrote: post #29
musicale wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blue Bottle is majority owned by Nestle and seems OK but not particularly special.

That's sad. I hope some people got rich selling to Nestle - that place was _amazing_ 20 years ago.

They're not just "OK." Their coffee is phenomenal today (although I can't speak to relativity from its 20 years' past self).

They have absolutely EXPLODED in number of locations in CA since acquisition though, so they're not really my first search if I'm in the center of a Metropolis.

Re: Ask HN: Why doesn't Starbucks beat local coffee shops?

#33

Post by dwd »

FridgeSeal wrote: post #15

In what market? They've seriously struggled in Australia-there's a few stores here and there-mostly confined to large shopping centres, but they're not popular and I believe they were down to single-digit number of stores a few years ago.

You would be hard pressed to find a coffee shop brewing worse coffee than Starbucks in Australia. From your local Gloria Jean or Coffee Club to ones with competition awarded baristas.

But Starbucks has its place. I stopped at a few in Japan to give the family a chance to sit down and not feel rushed to keep moving. You can charge your phone or your laptop and relax.

Re: Ask HN: Why doesn't Starbucks beat local coffee shops?

#34

Post by wprapido »

FridgeSeal wrote: post #15

In what market? They've seriously struggled in Australia-there's a few stores here and there-mostly confined to large shopping centres, but they're not popular and I believe they were down to single-digit number of stores a few years ago.

They failed miserably in Israel. Opened recently in Italy and cater almost exclusively to tourists. The only place with good coffee where they are doing okayish that I'm aware of is Sweden. They also do rather well in Turkey among hipsters, tourists and rich local college kids. Yet, it's limited to Istanbul

Re: Ask HN: Why doesn't Starbucks beat local coffee shops?

#35

Post by wprapido »

Starbucks coffee sucks and it's overpriced. As someone who patronises it, I go for cheapest brew, Americano

Starbucks does not compete with local coffee shops, neither with premium chains. They target different markets, serve different needs and got different business models

When do I patronise Starbucks? When I get tired of working from wherever I happen to work from and while on the road. Also I use it as a hangout spots for social and business purposes

Where they have to compete as a proper coffeeshop, they fail miserably (Israel) or struggle big time (Australia)

Re: Ask HN: Why doesn't Starbucks beat local coffee shops?

#36

Post by nicbou »

wprapido wrote: post #35

Starbucks coffee sucks and it's overpriced. As someone who patronises it, I go for cheapest brew, Americano Starbucks does not compete with local coffee shops, neither with premium chains. They target different markets, serve different needs and got different business models When do I patronise Starbucks? When I get tired of working from wherever I happen to work from and while on the road. Also I use it as a hangout…

I think Starbucks works for the same reason McDonalds works. Their logo is a seal of okayness that works across the globe.

No matter where I am driving in Europe, I know I can step off the highway and find a McDonalds with air conditioning, food, ice cream and Wi-Fi. I know I can use their touch screen terminals and pay with my card, regardless of the local language or currency. It's a meal for when you don't want to think about having a meal. It's logistically convenient.

I suspect Starbucks is the same.

Re: Ask HN: Why doesn't Starbucks beat local coffee shops?

#38

Post by mattbrewsbytes »

When you get a coffee-based drink at Starbucks, you can get that same exact drink anywhere on the planet at Starbucks and it will be nearly the same. They've applied the fast food business concepts to coffee. There is no need to improve the product at all, its not going to increase sales.

Also, "better" coffee is subjective. Buy local and shunning big corporations probably impact people's attitudes more about local coffee shops than the flavor of the coffee.

Re: Ask HN: Why doesn't Starbucks beat local coffee shops?

#39

Post by jmpman »

wprapido wrote: post #35

Starbucks coffee sucks and it's overpriced. As someone who patronises it, I go for cheapest brew, Americano Starbucks does not compete with local coffee shops, neither with premium chains. They target different markets, serve different needs and got different business models When do I patronise Starbucks? When I get tired of working from wherever I happen to work from and while on the road. Also I use it as a hangout…

Agreed, the Americano is the only “normal” coffee item which is a decent value and quality. Their drip is distinctively horrible.

Re: Ask HN: Why doesn't Starbucks beat local coffee shops?

#40

Post by tubularhells »

I can only speak for myself, so this will be very subjective.

Starbucks ha no soul, and their drinks are targeted at an American audience who don't know better. As a European I'd rather give my money to espresso bars doing good filter coffee than spend a minute standing in line at a Starbucks. I've been remote working for years and many coffee shops in my home town treat me like furniture by now, since I often worked 4-5 hours daily from their tables, rotating my favourite places. I am good friends with some owners and many many baristas, so I get a bit of a special treatment when I'm there.

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