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Ask HN: Why doesn't Starbucks beat local coffee shops?

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21–30 of 51 posts

Re: Ask HN: Why doesn't Starbucks beat local coffee shops?

#21
post #4

It’s not only about the coffee. How would they find good quality pastries and bread for 15000 stores? How would they create a unique and cozy atmosphere? Food doesn’t scale like that. It’s the same with restaurants.

PS. At least high quality food doesn’t scale like that.

Re: Ask HN: Why doesn't Starbucks beat local coffee shops?

#22
> Majority of coffee fans say their local coffee shops make better coffee than starbucks.

They are wrong. Are there any blind taste tests? It's harder than wine to test, but should be possible.

But the premise is incorrect anyway.

Enjoyment of food and drink is tied to way more than taste. History matters. Sight matters. The story matters. Variety matters. Routine matters. The people matter.

The trick is to get the coffee backhouse, without suspicion or losing all the extra things that matter and then use pods -

30% of Michelin-starred restaurants choose Nespresso machines https://www.grubstreet.com/2013/03/nespresso-sold-at-micheli...

Re: Ask HN: Why doesn't Starbucks beat local coffee shops?

#23
post #12

Starbucks aren't trying to "beat" specialty espresso places. They aren't even in competition with them really. https://www.fastcompany.com/887990/starbucks-third-place-and... "Starbucks goal is to become the Third Place in our daily lives. (i.e. Home, Work and Starbucks) “We want to provide all the comforts of your home and office. You can sit in a nice chair, talk on your phone, look out the window, surf the web… oh…

While this IS true, i also find in my part of the world that the brewed coffee and beans from Starbucks is significantly and consistently superior to most things i am able to conveniently find.

Now I've been to SF and Peet's was excellent and there are similarly excellent coffee shops in many city centers. But where i live and work, Starbucks tends to be pretty much a cut above much else conveniently available

Re: Ask HN: Why doesn't Starbucks beat local coffee shops?

#24
post #12

Starbucks aren't trying to "beat" specialty espresso places. They aren't even in competition with them really. https://www.fastcompany.com/887990/starbucks-third-place-and... "Starbucks goal is to become the Third Place in our daily lives. (i.e. Home, Work and Starbucks) “We want to provide all the comforts of your home and office. You can sit in a nice chair, talk on your phone, look out the window, surf the web… oh…

This is a great response, you also have to think that Starbucks are "convenient" when you cannot get the specialty espresso places. For example on my way home to see family I pass about four drive through Starbucks.

Re: Ask HN: Why doesn't Starbucks beat local coffee shops?

#26
post #23
post #12

Starbucks aren't trying to "beat" specialty espresso places. They aren't even in competition with them really. https://www.fastcompany.com/887990/starbucks-third-place-and... "Starbucks goal is to become the Third Place in our daily lives. (i.e. Home, Work and Starbucks) “We want to provide all the comforts of your home and office. You can sit in a nice chair, talk on your phone, look out the window, surf the web… oh…

While this IS true, i also find in my part of the world that the brewed coffee and beans from Starbucks is significantly and consistently superior to most things i am able to conveniently find. Now I've been to SF and Peet's was excellent and there are similarly excellent coffee shops in many city centers. But where i live and work, Starbucks tends to be pretty much a cut above much else conveniently available

> Now I've been to SF and Peet's was excellent

http://www.daleisphere.com/the-intertwined-history-of-peets-...

"To this day Peet’s remains a largely a regional player though it has expanded to a few other U.S. states. It still makes the best chain-store coffee I’ve ever had – far surpassing the coffee made available at Starbucks"

This seems like something of an exaggeration. Peet's seems marginally better than Starbucks. Maybe.

Re: Ask HN: Why doesn't Starbucks beat local coffee shops?

#27
post #23
post #12

Starbucks aren't trying to "beat" specialty espresso places. They aren't even in competition with them really. https://www.fastcompany.com/887990/starbucks-third-place-and... "Starbucks goal is to become the Third Place in our daily lives. (i.e. Home, Work and Starbucks) “We want to provide all the comforts of your home and office. You can sit in a nice chair, talk on your phone, look out the window, surf the web… oh…

While this IS true, i also find in my part of the world that the brewed coffee and beans from Starbucks is significantly and consistently superior to most things i am able to conveniently find. Now I've been to SF and Peet's was excellent and there are similarly excellent coffee shops in many city centers. But where i live and work, Starbucks tends to be pretty much a cut above much else conveniently available

Oh sure. "Good enough". Because "most things" are crap. But you're prioritising "conveniently find" way over "coffee quality". I'll go an hour out of my way to find great coffee. Even when I travel I'll spend significant time researching the best coffee in the places I'm going.

If you're not plugged into the specialty coffee world, you'll think places like Peets are "excellent". Next time you go to SF, try Ritual and Blue Bottle and Sightglass (and my last visit there was 5-ish years back, so I'm certainly out of date with newer recommendations, and I seem to recall Blue Bottle "sold out" and may not be genuinely specialty grade coffee any more...)

25-30% of my rss feed is coffee-related, probably 20% of my Youtube subscriptions are coffee-related. The far end of the excellent coffee bell curve isn't _that_ hard to find, but here in Sydney, for example, many of the top 10-20 places are good enough that they're coffee destinations in their own right, and are not paying for high foot traffic locations in city centers. I've got four great roasters fairly nearby, all pretty much in the middle of light industrial hell. They're in between nondescript warehouses and bearing shops and panel beaters and down the street from new loft conversions selling the "hipster scene" they've partly created (along with the breweries and live music venue and motorcycle workshops nearby). People get in their cars or get a cab/Uber to go there because Hazel and Claire roast there, or because Dan is the head barista, or because Sasa trains everyone personally, or because Reuben sources all the green beans himself.

Go find _those_ places in your city, then tell us what you think of Peets and Starbucks... And maybe you won't care. Not eveybody does, and that's fine. Maybe it'll ruin you for life, and you'll never be able to drink mediocre coffee again - and you might think that's wonderful of you might hate me for it... But go find out...

Re: Ask HN: Why doesn't Starbucks beat local coffee shops?

#28
post #27
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While this IS true, i also find in my part of the world that the brewed coffee and beans from Starbucks is significantly and consistently superior to most things i am able to conveniently find. Now I've been to SF and Peet's was excellent and there are similarly excellent coffee shops in many city centers. But where i live and work, Starbucks tends to be pretty much a cut above much else conveniently available

Oh sure. "Good enough". Because "most things" are crap. But you're prioritising "conveniently find" way over "coffee quality". I'll go an hour out of my way to find great coffee. Even when I travel I'll spend significant time researching the best coffee in the places I'm going. If you're not plugged into the specialty coffee world, you'll think places like Peets are "excellent". Next time you go to SF, try Ritual and…

Blue Bottle is majority owned by Nestle and seems OK but not particularly special.

Re: Ask HN: Why doesn't Starbucks beat local coffee shops?

#29
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh sure. "Good enough". Because "most things" are crap. But you're prioritising "conveniently find" way over "coffee quality". I'll go an hour out of my way to find great coffee. Even when I travel I'll spend significant time researching the best coffee in the places I'm going. If you're not plugged into the specialty coffee world, you'll think places like Peets are "excellent". Next time you go to SF, try Ritual and…

Blue Bottle is majority owned by Nestle and seems OK but not particularly special.

That's sad. I hope some people got rich selling to Nestle - that place was _amazing_ 20 years ago.

Re: Ask HN: Why doesn't Starbucks beat local coffee shops?

#30

Why doesn't Mcdonalds beat local artisan restaurants? Because their strategy is to be easy, convenient, familiar, safe, etc. The food/coffee is pretty bad, but you know what you get. This apparently is what the masses want. Predictable experience.

Ask any child (and most adults) and they will confirm the truth: McDonald's is actually a local optimum of fast-food deliciousness. It may not be healthy, but it's definitely tasty (though I say that as someone who has not eaten there in many years, I am certain that their standards have not fallen, simply because they basically invented fast food standardization.) Like most great fast food, it simply presses all of the buttons of salty, sweet, tangy, greasy/creamy, and savory, and usually incorporates contrasting textures and temperatures (note hot fries + burger vs. cold soda or frozen shake/soft serve.)

McDonald's food is bad in the same way that Coke is bad: it's made by a giant corporation, it's highly processed and contains questionable additives, it's readily available and heavily advertised, and consuming a lot of it will make you overweight and very unhealthy (see Super Size Me.) On the other hand, you can actually lose weight and potentially improve your lab numbers if you eat a low-calorie McDonald's diet (see The McDonald's Diet.)

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