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Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

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Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#261

Post by boudin »

londons_explore wrote: post #93
boudin wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is this based on?

Conjecture. Laws in the EU are far less strict and precise to begin with than US laws that you might be used to. The EU competition commission has wideranging powers to fine almost any company as it sees fit for even no reason at all. But to maintain its own existence, the public (voters -> MEPs) need to think it's doing a good job. A good way to do that is to fine companies voters think are evil.

I just meant that people in eu loves apple. That's certainly not true everywhere. The market share definitely doesn't show that.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#262

Post by M5x7wI3CmbEem10 »

reaperducer wrote: post #258
aboringusername wrote: post #6

This is something many people feared might happen, and now, it's become a reality: Apple can, at will, remove your entire foundation or business, your (their) customers and your existence on iOS is just gone. Apple is a company that needs to be brought down a peg or two, it's far too 'valuable' in terms of its market worth, and needs a huge kick up the ass as Microsoft once had to show them some respect. And the EU w…

Apple can, at will, remove your entire foundation or business It’s the hazards of building your business on another company’s foundation. There are millions of companies completely dependent on Apple, Amazon, or another organization. In tech terms, it goes back to affiliate marketing days. In real world terms, it goes back centuries. No leader should make his company dependent on another company, but it happens all t…

is it even possible to be independent now? you have to purchase something as simple as a domain and hosting from somewhere.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#263

Post by wayneftw »

DonaldPShimoda wrote: post #165
danShumway wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've commented to the same effect at least 2 or 3 times over the duration of this lawsuit, but just to keep repeating: if you get too picky about who is and isn't allowed to advocate for you, eventually everyone will stop advocating for you. A billion dollar company is completely necessary to tackle Apple. This stuff is important, and advocates for user-freedom and device ownership can't afford to put every company t…

I agree with you that a billion-dollar company is practically necessary to fight Apple on issues like this. What I don't like, though, is that Epic are trying to portray themselves as the little guy fighting for the users' rights throughout all this, as seen in the "Nineteen Eighty-Fortnite" ad. They're being dishonest in their self-image, and that taints my perception of them because I wonder what else they're being…

They are relatively smaller and if they win this fight, all the little guys that are rooting for them will win as well.

Here's a visualization so you can see how much smaller a billion is than a trillion - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAoK38U8gDU

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#264

Post by 52-6F-62 »

bogwog wrote: post #127
52-6F-62 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Getting kicked out of a mom and pop shop isn’t going to end my business. And it would be a poor business model if it were capable of ending your business, no?

Are you saying that the entire mobile app business is built on a flawed business model? How do you build a mobile app business that can survive being blacklisted by Apple and Google?

I didn't say that, no.

And I didn't think Google was involved here?

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#265

Post by mthoms »

strbean wrote: post #221

I got drive-by downvotes from Apple fanbois for saying this in a previous thread, but I think this could actually have a significant impact on the iOS user base in the long term. I'd wager that a significant portion of iOS's user acquisition funnel is children for whom Fortnite is a requirement. All those kids will be throwing tantrums until their parents get them an Android device.

Are you sure the downvotes weren't due to childish language ("Apple fanbois")? Because that's certainly why you're getting downvoted now.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#266

Post by paulpan »

aboringusername wrote: post #6

This is something many people feared might happen, and now, it's become a reality: Apple can, at will, remove your entire foundation or business, your (their) customers and your existence on iOS is just gone. Apple is a company that needs to be brought down a peg or two, it's far too 'valuable' in terms of its market worth, and needs a huge kick up the ass as Microsoft once had to show them some respect. And the EU w…

Is there any credence to the size of the EU fine being $5-10B? Even $10B seems a bit lenient given the size of Apple and its revenue/profits. There would need to be a feature change in addition to a fine, otherwise it'd just treated as "cost of doing business".

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#267

Post by Majromax »

ctroein89 wrote: post #150
gamblor956 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlike Apple, larger developers can use their market leverage to negotiate better rates, and many have, which is why you don't hear Epic or Rockstar complaining about MS or Sony. This point is key to the difference, since antitrust is about market interference. If market participants can use their own leverage to push back against another participant's market activities, then you don't have an antitrust violation. Ap…

> Microsoft and Playstation also allow for cross-platform play Sony explicitly didn't allow for cross-play until 2 years ago [ https://kotaku.com/sony-is-finally-allowing-cross-play-on-th... ], even though it was technically possible before then [ https://www.engadget.com/2017-06-24-rocket-league-cross-netw... ]. In fact, the only reason Sony opened up to cross-play is due to pressure to stay competitive with rival p…

> On the other hand, if argument is that it's easy enough to switch from Playstation to Xbox, then how is that different from buying a new phone?

Rather easily: players can own two consoles with nothing more than the hardware investment, and there's a long social experience of dedicated gamers doing just this. Owning two phones, however, requires two separate cell/data plans and duplication of every other regular-use app (productivity, e-mail, etc.)

The core distinction is that a console is a device, whereas iOS/Android is a platform.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#268

Post by mlazos »

I honestly don’t think Apple should be investigated for antitrust and I don’t think they can be considered a monopoly. There are plenty of choices in the gaming space, and there are a lot of android competitors to the App Store. I really don’t think epic should have any standing here. They’re just mad about Apple’s 30% cut. Apple charges a premium to people to be in their ecosystem and they do it anyway. This isn’t a monopoly by any definition. I do think removing Sign In with Apple is a bad look, but Epic is in over their head here, they really shouldn’t be suing Apple.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#269

Post by cr3ative »

dbxgiri wrote: post #164

I'm the guy who created the ORIGINAL system what Apple selling as "Sign in with Apple". [My system uses the industry standards like OAuth2. Apple ditched OAuth2 just to steal my work] This EPIC GAMES ban isn't "personal" as you all think. If Apple don't ban "Sign in with Apple" for epic games, then Apple is very much screwed. That's because I wrote the patent claim in such a way. This is my patent claim: https://www.…

Okay; I'll bite; I read your post. You have absolutely no claim here and the whole thing reads like the ramblings of someone who needs serious help. It actually gets worse the further down the page I read.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#270

Post by paulpan »

fxtentacle wrote: post #205
aboringusername wrote: post #6

This is something many people feared might happen, and now, it's become a reality: Apple can, at will, remove your entire foundation or business, your (their) customers and your existence on iOS is just gone. Apple is a company that needs to be brought down a peg or two, it's far too 'valuable' in terms of its market worth, and needs a huge kick up the ass as Microsoft once had to show them some respect. And the EU w…

I can't help but think that the whole thing is playing out exactly like Epic had hoped. After Apple kicked Fortnite from the iOS store, there was an outcry of people who had previously spent money on it through Apple's in-app purchases and now wanted a refund. Some of those users switched to playing Fortnite on a laptop or Android phone instead, but of course they were still using Sign in with Apple if they had origi…

I think Epic absolutely needs other major game studios, and major software companies, to join in their protest to effect the desired change.

Interesting point about the looming iOS14 update. Makes you wonder whether Apple will ultimately fall at their privacy sword, similar to how Google fell at its own "Don't do evil" motto. E.g. it's meaningless bravado when not applied to universally to all countries, aka China.

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